Four Knights of the Apocalypse

If you "read the manga™", this is the place to go...

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seiryu wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:28 am
Percy's magic is the universally adaptable cheat code (since you mentioned the overpowered main characters Marco), so I'm half expecting a new aspect every time a new predicament comes up.

This wouldn’t surprise me at all. None of his abilities make that much sense yet, but he’s supposed to be strong enough to help defeat King Arthur, whose magic is quite literally reality-bending (I don’t know if you finished Nanatsu but I would definitely recommend reading the last 10 or so chapters to get a basic idea of what Arthur’s ability for this series is). His basic abilities seem very strong, so when he starts mastering his magic, I could see things going a bit crazy...

seiryu wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:28 am
Was there anything to seal at the end of Nanatsu @Marco Polo @Johannes?

I don’t believe anything happened with the seal at the end, actually. It’s been “off” since the Demon Clan got released into Britannia. It really depends on what happened to the lower class demons etc. after the end of Nanatsu. I’m genuinely not sure what they’ll do with it.

seiryu wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:28 am
If they are all as interesting as Percy (and they have to be completely different personality wise), this is going to be a great series.

One of the knights is going to be Meliodas/Elizabeth’s child (Tristan). He’s a Demon/Goddess/Human hybrid so his magic should be interesting.

Another will be Lancelot, Ban and Elaine’s child. Half fairy, half human. They did a little side story for him between the end of Nanatsu and the start of this series which is worth a read because it sets up his character quite nicely.

The fourth knight is still a big question mark, the only thing we know is what we were told in one of the earlier chapters of this series.

seiryu wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:28 am
I guess more Nanatsu questions: how was the combat/fighting outside of the very ending? Was the main character (the guy that looks like Percy) correctly scaled back and believable that he shouldn't be one hit KO'ing everyone prior to the Demon King? If so, this series is even easier since it is just steadily developing Percy.

So the first 100 chapters were very good and felt very consistent, but then there was a HUGE leap in enemy power level when the Demon Clan were released, so everything went a bit iffy after that. And when I say iffy, I mean the powerscaling was a MESS.

Meliodas (MC) basically powered up by having his “true” power level gradually unsealed in various ways. He’s essentially Demon King level at his “prime”, but his power is sealed for a flurry of reasons. His “true” magic (not Full Counter) is stronger than the Demon King’s, and he conveniently decides towards the end of the series that after 3000 years of suffering, he’s ready to use it. Every time he got some of his power back, a character would say something like “THIS is the true Meliodas”, only for him to get another massive powerup at a later date.

The rest of the Sins were a bit of a mixed bunch. Merlin (who will be a big part in this series) basically has infinite magic that she can call upon so all she really did was try slightly harder towards the end, Escanor (Pride/Sun guy) was basically built on the premise that he was invincible so his ability literally allowed him invincibility at times, and the rest of the Sins got a single power boost that took them from being far too weak to handle the Demon Clan (Meliodas and Escanor did a LOT of the heavy lifting for about 100 chapters) to being the strongest of their respective races.

I have a lot of issues with Nanatsu’s powerscaling but 4KoA shouldn’t have the same problem because we’re being introduced to characters who eventually become the strongest, rather than characters who are supposedly the strongest but are weakened massively for plot reasons.


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Marco Polo wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:51 am
This wouldn’t surprise me at all. None of his abilities make that much sense yet, but he’s supposed to be strong enough to help defeat King Arthur, whose magic is quite literally reality-bending (I don’t know if you finished Nanatsu but I would definitely recommend reading the last 10 or so chapters to get a basic idea of what Arthur’s ability for this series is). His basic abilities seem very strong, so when he starts mastering his magic, I could see things going a bit crazy...
Ah, I'll probably read the ending by the next time I post here. I only read synopsis/plot summaries for the anime seasons, but since they were well written, I get a pretty clear picture of each arc/season. They mentioned Arthur being like a "chosen one", but if he's even more over-powered than the already over-powered characters, I guess this explains why there is this current Four Knights series.
Marco Polo wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:51 am
I don’t believe anything happened with the seal at the end, actually. It’s been “off” since the Demon Clan got released into Britannia. It really depends on what happened to the lower class demons etc. after the end of Nanatsu. I’m genuinely not sure what they’ll do with it.
Ah, perfect. It sounded this way from what I read. Since it is strong enough to seal the entire demon clan, maybe there is an alternative usage (i.e. something magical that is not just "sealing")? Unless there is going to be the introduction of a new clan, there isn't anything to trap...but with it coming back and being collected by the main baddie, it's going to be something important.
Marco Polo wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:51 am
One of the knights is going to be Meliodas/Elizabeth’s child (Tristan). He’s a Demon/Goddess/Human hybrid so his magic should be interesting.

Another will be Lancelot, Ban and Elaine’s child. Half fairy, half human. They did a little side story for him between the end of Nanatsu and the start of this series which is worth a read because it sets up his character quite nicely.

The fourth knight is still a big question mark, the only thing we know is what we were told in one of the earlier chapters of this series.
Ah, I specifically wanted to go back to this chapter (I had to browse through chapters 3-5 I think) because now I have context. The names of the kids weren't mentioned since that's major spoilers, but I guess I have another reason to read the ending of Nanatsu at least. However, what comes to mind on the last Apocalype Knight is the sun-powered guy. He's essentially the most overpowered character throughout Nanatsu from what I'm understanding. When I read the "golden magic", this immediately came to mind. Is his magic golden in the anime? If not, maybe it is for the better to have someone that is completely new in all aspects (since Percy is having major overlap with the main character of Nanatsu).
Marco Polo wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:51 am
So the first 100 chapters were very good and felt very consistent, but then there was a HUGE leap in enemy power level when the Demon Clan were released, so everything went a bit iffy after that. And when I say iffy, I mean the powerscaling was a MESS.

Meliodas (MC) basically powered up by having his “true” power level gradually unsealed in various ways. He’s essentially Demon King level at his “prime”, but his power is sealed for a flurry of reasons. His “true” magic (not Full Counter) is stronger than the Demon King’s, and he conveniently decides towards the end of the series that after 3000 years of suffering, he’s ready to use it. Every time he got some of his power back, a character would say something like “THIS is the true Meliodas”, only for him to get another massive powerup at a later date.

The rest of the Sins were a bit of a mixed bunch. Merlin (who will be a big part in this series) basically has infinite magic that she can call upon so all she really did was try slightly harder towards the end, Escanor (Pride/Sun guy) was basically built on the premise that he was invincible so his ability literally allowed him invincibility at times, and the rest of the Sins got a single power boost that took them from being far too weak to handle the Demon Clan (Meliodas and Escanor did a LOT of the heavy lifting for about 100 chapters) to being the strongest of their respective races.

I have a lot of issues with Nanatsu’s powerscaling but 4KoA shouldn’t have the same problem because we’re being introduced to characters who eventually become the strongest, rather than characters who are supposedly the strongest but are weakened massively for plot reasons.
Ah, I would have had a hard time with the entire middle of the series then. Man...the main character being as strong as the final enemy from the start...but there were multiple seals/power ups along the way (the big one sounded like the elf training) so it is probably only crazy looking at it after completion.

Hmm...sounds like the flaw of most fighting-based series where it is just hard to develop 5, 10, 15, 20 different characters with necessary tiers of power levels for each step of the plot. At least it wasn't the cop out of everyone getting a dues ex machina power up every climax fight because of their willpower (Bleach comes to mind other than the stereotypical Dragon Ball).

I think I missed it because I had zero context, but there has to be original characters that are still alive correct? It seems like everyone except humans should have a lifespan that keeps them alive in the current plot. I read that Merlin is actually some tiny kid right? So even though she's human, she's probably still around.

But like you mentioned, the most exciting aspect is that everyone in this series is just on a different power level/tier. Hopefully the enemy knights so far are the weakest of the group (there's a whole ton of them in that meeting hall). So this first part of the series is Percy steadily learning to control his "do everything magic".

However, we run into a similar problem as the Meliodas and Escanor problem if 3-4 of the Apocalypse Knights are together too early. The enemy isn't going to be stupid and just have dozens of 1v1 fights in a row, so things should just rapidly ramp up into the full scale war once we get introduced to the third and fourth allies. With Percy's magic being so much of a cheat code, maybe he meets all of the other three members just in time for the war/prophecy part.

I keep expecting the plot to diverge, but I keep forgetting series cannot be like One Piece and have a 10-20-30 year plot. So even though Ironside won't be defeated anytime soon (probably), he has some sort of plot with the seal that should be exciting. Since Percy has to make big jumps, maybe the seal getting completed is the fight that gets his next power up.


Back to the blind Oda faith (until the next B.S. of course).
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seiryu wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 11:57 pm
Ah, I'll probably read the ending by the next time I post here. I only read synopsis/plot summaries for the anime seasons, but since they were well written, I get a pretty clear picture of each arc/season. They mentioned Arthur being like a "chosen one", but if he's even more over-powered than the already over-powered characters, I guess this explains why there is this current Four Knights series.

I'll wait until you've seen his ability before I say anything more, but I will say that I highly doubt that any of the four surpass him individually - even at end of series levels.

seiryu wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 11:57 pm
Since it is strong enough to seal the entire demon clan, maybe there is an alternative usage (i.e. something magical that is not just "sealing")? Unless there is going to be the introduction of a new clan, there isn't anything to trap...but with it coming back and being collected by the main baddie, it's going to be something important.

The only potential "new" clan would be the Goddesses (they never really got revealed properly in Taizai), but they aren't sealed in the Coffin as far as I remember. I might be forgetting something though, so don't hold me to this.

seiryu wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 11:57 pm
However, what comes to mind on the last Apocalype Knight is the sun-powered guy. He's essentially the most overpowered character throughout Nanatsu from what I'm understanding. When I read the "golden magic", this immediately came to mind. Is his magic golden in the anime?

This is one of the popular theories I think. Sunshine looks more fire-like in the anime, but I can see it passing as "golden".

seiryu wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 11:57 pm
Man...the main character being as strong as the final enemy from the start...but there were multiple seals/power ups along the way (the big one sounded like the elf training) so it is probably only crazy looking at it after completion.

The first couple of powerups were justifiable, but the last one (which is the one that took him past Demon King level) was a bit much. They never officially gave it a name and he supposedly gives up the power at the end of the series, but it seemed like something introduced for convenience rather than it being a foreshadowed powerup.


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Marco Polo wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:30 pm
I'll wait until you've seen his ability before I say anything more, but I will say that I highly doubt that any of the four surpass him individually - even at end of series levels.
Woah...I think the chapter on "A Fragment of Chaos" probably foreshadows the end of this series perfectly. This is the sort of stuff I eat up! So the other major aspect is that it is also foreshadowed that the previous protagonists will be there if Arthur goes down the wrong path.

Damn, it makes sense why Percy has to have a universally adaptable magic. He is the opposite of Chaos, but just to a lower total level of magic power. Based on what I read about magic powers, it is one specific skillset like our poison guy. It can be adaptable to heal or poison, but there is a set classification.

Does the different classifications of magic the first Holy Knight mentioned come up in Nanatsu?

But I'm assuming just like the end of Nanatsu, the other three Apocalypse Knights will just be masters of their specific magic.

Tristan will have both the Demon and Goddess powers/magic. I assume the full counter aspect will continue with Tristan, so that probably helps as a perfect defense.

Lancelot presumably inherits Ban's various "thief" based skills on top of the fairy powers/magic.

Ah, there is also the child of the Giant girl and the Fairy King. This is the only other likely candidate for the last Apocalypse Knight.

Considering the foreshadowing of the previous protagonists being there to "save Arthur" essentially, it makes sense that the children of them are the Apocalypse Knights.

Sooo...considering the literal reality bending extent of power/magic, it makes sense that everyone has a "second" specialty magic. I.E. Tristan has the Demon/Goddess mix plus an individual specialty (maybe a physical enhancement would be best since Full Counter makes him the tank of the group). Lancelot has whatever category the poison guy has since Ban's power is kinda all over the place.

But Growther should still be 100% relevant since mind alteration is the "ultimate magic". Arthur is not the same Arthur we see at the end of Nanatsu, so essentially Growther could be the cheat code that ends this series. Similarly, Meliodas, Merlin, the Giant girl, and the Fairy King should all be alive now. But they are all waaaaaay too weak to fight Arthur, so maybe they just make cameos and stabilize Arthur's mind since he is being twisted by the negative side of Chaos?

Damn, it's kinda crazy how much of the plot is already set, but hopefully the journey exceeds this set outline.
Marco Polo wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:30 pm
The only potential "new" clan would be the Goddesses (they never really got revealed properly in Taizai), but they aren't sealed in the Coffin as far as I remember. I might be forgetting something though, so don't hold me to this.
I'm really thinking there is something other than sealing that the puzzle thing can do. Reading the most recent chapter, Ironside will likely get his way and trigger something to get the plot further progressing.

Demons and Goddesses are waaaaaay too weak right? Bringing out a bunch of pawns does nothing for the plot, so there has to be some sort of different usage.
Marco Polo wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:30 pm
This is one of the popular theories I think. Sunshine looks more fire-like in the anime, but I can see it passing as "golden".
Ah, probably not then if it isn't clearly gold. So this makes it definitive for me that it is the son of the last couple of the previous protagonists. And if that's the case, it fits that they all have different individual specialty magic powers too. Or...reading that the Sacred Tree was Chaos's third "child" with the Giants being the fourth race, they both overlap with a strong connection to the earth/use mother nature for their magic. Maybe the golden aspect is the perfect unity of these seemingly opposite ends of the spectrum (giant and tiny).
Marco Polo wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:30 pm
The first couple of powerups were justifiable, but the last one (which is the one that took him past Demon King level) was a bit much. They never officially gave it a name and he supposedly gives up the power at the end of the series, but it seemed like something introduced for convenience rather than it being a foreshadowed powerup.
The plot summary I read said he used the Demon King power to destroy his father or something like that? The Ten Commandments had to be destroyed, so he used his last B.S. power up to permanently kill the Demon King (which was necessary for Chaos to awaken).

I'm seeing the potential for literary perfection here, so I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that it probably fits better than it seems. Or at least the big picture stuff fits really, really well.


Back to the blind Oda faith (until the next B.S. of course).
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OK just read chapters 15-20

thoughts
So it looks like the gang are going to take out Ironside. I still don’t really know what he’s doing with the coffin? It sounded like he wanted to seal someone or something, but it’s not 100% clear to me?

Also Percival’s magic is quite literally “nakama power.” Hahahahaha



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Marco Polo wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:02 pm
OK just read chapters 15-20

thoughts
So it looks like the gang are going to take out Ironside. I still don’t really know what he’s doing with the coffin? It sounded like he wanted to seal someone or something, but it’s not 100% clear to me?

Also Percival’s magic is quite literally “nakama power.” Hahahahaha


Spoiler
Based on the raw I read, Ironside seems to be trying to unseal demons. The demons will destroy the country for him. Why he needs this is not expanded on.

Does the mangaka take people out all the time? Feels anticlimactic for the "end of the series" stuff to happen so early on (Ironside getting defeated).

"Hope" seems perfect since I'm assuming Percy will be the unifying personality. I'm rooting for the 3 other apocalypse knights to be the children of the original protagonists. Matches potential foreshadowing at the end of Nanatsu.

But speaking of Percy's magic...the mini-Percy's are fusing with his grandpa's cloak. I'm semi-recalling that someone said it might have been magical. Considering chaos is super levels of magic, Percy's ability to materialize the thoughts of himself and his companions/friends is probably the primary counter to chaos.

Considering Arthur has somehow become corrupt, the "hope" is necessary for the world to not be destroyed.


Back to the blind Oda faith (until the next B.S. of course).
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seiryu wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:58 am
Does the mangaka take people out all the time? Feels anticlimactic for the "end of the series" stuff to happen so early on (Ironside getting defeated).

Nakaba notoriously does not kill people off until the last second. He's probably just as bad as Oda with death fakeouts. Not just in Nanatsu, but in the other series of his I read too (Kongoh Bancho)

seiryu wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:58 am
"Hope" seems perfect since I'm assuming Percy will be the unifying personality. I'm rooting for the 3 other apocalypse knights to be the children of the original protagonists. Matches potential foreshadowing at the end of Nanatsu.

I would agree with this. I thought the new girl (Angalahad/Ann I think she's called?) could be a contender as one of the knights given she has some kind of special ability, but I'm probably wrong on that. I'm still expecting Meliodas/Tristan to show up before the gang leave Liones, though? Although if Percy has awakened his ability he's probably going to defeat Ironside so there's no need for Mel/Tristan to intervene.

seiryu wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:58 am
But speaking of Percy's magic...the mini-Percy's are fusing with his grandpa's cloak. I'm semi-recalling that someone said it might have been magical.

That sounds right. His grandfather had a lot of magical items (the knife Percy used to cut wild animal meat a few chapters back also springs to mind) that he taught his grandson to use without saying "this is magic".

seiryu wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:58 am
Considering chaos is super levels of magic, Percy's ability to materialize the thoughts of himself and his companions/friends is probably the primary counter to chaos.

Definitely. It's a VERY powerful magic, but then Chaos is quite literally world-bending so it needs to be equally ridiculous.



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Chapter 21
I wonder who that mystery attacker is? If we’re in Liones then I suspect it could be someone we know…

Also, according to a tweet from the official account Chapter 22 is of special interest for Taizai readers:



So I would suspect we’re seeing someone from the OG series. Based on the ability, it looks like Gilthunder (it could be lightning). Or, we’re going to see Tristan for the first time. I’m curious to see who it is!

The fight sequence in this chapter was really well done, and the Ironside face reveal at the end was cool… he does look like Grandpa after all.


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