The Fall of the Ancient Kingdom, and the End of the Void Century

Marco Polo

The Fall of the Ancient Kingdom, and the End of the Void Century Introduction This theory is going to be a bit of a long one, but I'm going to try keep things as short as possible. The main body of the theory involves a lot of headcanon, but I'll explain all the key pieces of evidence for the theory so we're hopefully on the same page before I go in to full theorycrafting mode. I guess to start with, it's probably a good idea to remind you guys of two key incidents within the series that will form the "core" of this theory. Firstly, Clover's speech to the World Government during the Ohara Incident: Secondly, the God Valley Incident: Some key pieces of information we can ascertain from these two incidents: > At the start of the Void Century, there was a kingdom, referred to as the Ancient Kingdom, that ruled over the world. They were a Kingdom that held advanced knowledge, and held power. > The Void Century ends with the formation of the World Government, and the erasure of the Ancient Kingdom from the history books. > As evidenced by the God Valley incident, the WG are more than happy to fight alongside pirates should there be a greater threat. This can also be seen in the Alabasta and Dressrosa arcs. > Much like the Oharans, Rocks D. Xebec was interested in subjects the WG considered taboo. > Roger's role in the God Valley incident was erased from history, as was Rocks' existence. > The Government only directly fought Xebec during the God Valley Incident. The key rivalry was Roger vs. Xebec, rather than Xebec vs. the World Government. Another key concept that I want to highlight before we go into the theory is the idea of Peacemains vs. Morganeers. It's not explained in the main series, but Oda brings it up in the Romance Dawn oneshot: The most important takeaway from this is that pirates can be divided into two groups based on ideology. We've seen it in the One Piece story, most notably with Roger vs. Xebec, and also with Luffy vs. Blackbeard. Whilst Blackbeard hasn't had much screentime, his actions and his portrayal as Luffy's direct opposite suggest that whilst Luffy is the "model" Peacemain, Blackbeard is the "model" Morganeer. With these pieces of information, it's time for me to outline the main hypothesis of this theory. That is, that the major conflict of the Void Century was a battle between pirates. Namely, it was a conflict between Peacemains and Morganeers. This theory will go into detail and explain a possible chain of events that eventually led to the end of this conflict, the fall of the Ancient Kingdom and the rise of the World Government. The Ancient Kingdom - A Kingdom of Pirates Before I go into detail about the events of the Void Century, I think it's important to determine who lived in the Ancient Kingdom, and why it eventually fell. I believe the Ancient Kingdom was a Kingdom filled with Pirates, most of whom were Peacemains. This assertion is backed up by the existence of Joy Boy, who in Oden's flashback we find out lived in the Ancient Kingdom. From both the Laugh Tale segment of that flashback and Robin's side mission in Fishman Island, we know Joy Boy was responsible for the content on the Poneglyphs. Now, why does this lead me to believe the Ancient Kingdom was filled pirates? Well, it boils down to the dispersal of the Poneglyphs across the world. In a time with no Marines, the only group of people that we know of that could have travelled the seas are Pirates. Joy Boy himself may not have been involved in this journey (he could have been dead for all we know), but he could have had people from his Kingdom to go across the world and spread his message in such a way that it could never be lost. He would also have had a say on where to leave the Poneglyphs - likely in the hands of people he trusts. Why do I think they were Peacemains? Well, that's quite easy to explain. Joy Boy's wish to bring the Fishmen to the surface isn't the ambition of a Morganeer, who would likely have tried to conquer the island. I think Joy Boy's ideal world, and the message he left behind on the Poneglyphs was one of a free world without discrimination. A Quick Note on the Old World Another important point to raise is that of the state of the world before the formation of the World Government. We know that 20 Kingdoms went on to form the World Government, and, save for the Nefertari Family, their royal families eventually went to Mariejois and became the Tenryuubito. So what was the world like without a World Government? Well, I believe that most countries were independently run by their kings, and weren't overly connected to each other. Basically, like the current Wano Country, but with open borders. There may have been small unions of countries that were geographically close to one another, but that would be as close as it came. The Ancient Kingdom was likely the only country with the means to travel the world, and their era was likely similar to that of Columbus and the other privateers who travelled the world, minus the horrendous colonisation. Well, at least it was that way for a while. The Rise of the Morganeers, and the Beginning of the Ancient Kingdom's Downfall So, what we've established so far is that the Ancient Kingdom was an island full of peace-loving pirates. Those connected to Joy Boy, who was likely a senior figure in that Kingdom, likely shared his ideal of a free world. We also know that the Ancient Kingdom were the dominant power in the world at this time. They were able to roam the world, and adventure freely. However, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Whether it was the voice of one man, or a string of incidents, a faction of pirates from the Ancient Kingdom one day realised "hey, we can kinda do whatever we want and get away with it." This ideal led to pillaging, conquering et cetera, and eventually the birth of the Morganeer ideology. This would have formed a major rift in the Ancient Kingdom, with Joy Boy and the Peacemains being strongly opposed to this way of living, whereas the Morganeers think it's fine since they're strong and that their strength is justice. This would eventually lead to the Morganeers wanting to conquer and form an Empire run by pirates who share their beliefs, and this greed and lust for power would be the beginning of the end for the Ancient Kingdom. The Ancient Pirate War Without a World Government, the Morganeers were pretty free to go from island to island, conquering and generally doing as they please. This was dangerous for most countries, as there was likely a major difference in strength between the Morganeers and each country's military/defence system. So, who would help the countries fight against the Morganeers? Well naturally, the Peacemains. They would go from country to country, helping each nation fend off the Morganeers, eventually driving them out. This would continue until the Morganeers either gave up, or were wiped out to a point where they could no longer fight. The Peacemains were likely not bothered with accolades or praise (see: Luffy), and left the world to its own devices. However, this would end up being the final nail in the Ancient Kingdom's coffin. The Formation of the World Government, and the Criminalization of Piracy The war is over, and the 20 Kingdoms were saved. But, the conclusion of this war brought about one painful realisation - they were weak. If only there were some way that they could form a global-scale alliance to protect each other should a war like this ever happen again.... And that's how the World Government was born. The 20 Kingdoms formed this alliance, which would go on to be the WG we see in the present One Piece universe, and its heads (or 19/20 of them, at least) moved to Mariejois so they would be safe from any pirate attacks in the future. With the World Government now formed, there was only one more topic left on the agenda - what to do about the pirates? Sure, it was pirates that ended up saving them, but how would anyone know if a pirate landing on their shores was good or bad? The conclusion they reached was that for everyone's safety, pirates were no longer allowed. The WG would pool together its resources and its strongest fighters, and launch a mission to eradicate the people of the Ancient Kingdom. Not only would they target pirates with their own armies, but they would offer cash prizes for anyone that managed to catch a pirate and hand them over. This would eventually evolve into the bounty system we see today. Oh, and if you think they wouldn't go as far as genocide, I will refer you to the story of Portgas D. Rouge and the lengths the WG went to extinguish Roger's bloodline. That ideology was likely born during this purging of the Ancient Kingdom. The End of the Ancient Kingdom, and the "Will of D." With the war on pirates underway, the Ancient Kingdom realised their time might be coming to an end. Joy Boy and team were unable to complete their dream of creating a free world thanks to the actions of the Morganeers. However, they didn't lose hope that one day, someone would show up and complete their dream for them. Joy Boy would head to the Wano Country, and ask the Kozuki clan to write a series of messages for people in the future that would never be lost. This resulted in the birth of the Poneglyphs. The only people who could read the message on them were those of the Ancient Kingdom, whose language is likely the one we see on the Poneglyphs, and the Kozuki Clan, who would have been taught how to read and write in the language in order to construct the Poneglyph. Among the Poneglyphs created, information about the events of the war, the formation of the World Government and the location of Ancient Weapons (which haven't featured much in this theory but were likely a key part of the Ancient Kingdom's power) were inscribed, as well as instructions for how to reach their kingdom, which for the sake of protection was hidden from the rest of the world. Joy Boy would also apologise to the king of Fishman Island for being unable to fulfill his promise of bringing the fishman tribe to the surface. These Poneglyphs were then carried across the world, and left in the hands of people that Joy Boy trusted. With their message now safe, there was one more plan enacted by Joy Boy and co. That plan was to make sure any survivors of the World Government's assault on the Ancient Kingdom were able to identify each other, and make sure Joy Boy's will was passed on. This led to descendants of the Ancient Kingdom incorporating the initial "D" into their name. I couldn't tell you exactly what the "D" stands for, but here's two possible ideas: 1. The name of the Ancient Kingdom 2. The will to bring about the "Dawn" of the world. It's a concept that's come up more in recent chapters, most notably with Roger and Pedro. However, the people who took on the initial D. weren't all people who sided with Joyboy. Survivors of the Peacemain vs. Morganeer war who shared the Morganeers' ideology also took the name as a way of identifying each other. Whilst the World Government and the Celestial Dragons remember the meaning of this name (leading to D.'s being referred to as the "enemy of the Gods"), the meaning is lost to time. This is evidenced by the present day D.'s being mostly unaware, and just carry the initial as part of their names. An exception to this is the Trafalgar D. clan, who hide the initial. A Quick Note on the Nefertari Family One group I've left out of this discussion are the Nefertari family. Whilst they were involved in the formation of the World Government, they didn't move up to Mariejois. The reason for this is fairly simple - the Nefertari family were close with Joy Boy. They understood the need for kingdoms to be protected, but didn't agree with the extents the WG were going to for their goal. They were also against the idea of moving up to Mariejois and living as "Gods". Of the twenty kingdoms that formed the WG, they were the only ones to remain supportive of Joy Boy and the Ancient Kingdom. To protect his message, they remained in Alabasta. There's also an element of self-protection here - as the WG likely would have killed anyone who had connections to the Ancient Kingdom, as well as Ancient Kingdom residents themselves. Conclusion/Summary I know there's a lot to take in here, so here's a summary of the key points of this theory. > The Void Century consisted of two wars. The first was between two rival factions in the Ancient Kingdom, the Peacemains and the Morganeers. The second was between the newly-formed World Government and the survivors of the Ancient Kingdom. > The Peacemains won the first war, and the conclusion of the first war would lead to the first incarnation of the World Government. The World Government would eventually go on to win the second and become the establishment we see today. Should this theory be correct, it has interesting implications for the current story. It sets up the Luffy vs. Blackbeard conflict as a repeat of the Ancient Pirate War and of the God Valley Incident, and hints at the idea that the Marines may eventually team up with him. However, unlike the events of 800 years ago, there will be forces in place (the Revolutionary Army, for example) that will ensure that the Marines who try to censor Luffy's role in the war are stopped, thus freeing the world from the Government's grasp and lettting the "true history" become common knowledge. I hope you've enjoyed reading this theory as much as I've enjoyed writing it!

goldenvenus

Interesting point about the Peacemain and the Morgania. I've completely forgotten about that part until you mentioned it. It does sound plausible that the two sides had a massive war, but I'm not too sure about the part where the ancient kingdom being the kingdom of pirates. It's not something that I would prefer, to be honest. Though, considering that in real life, the meaning of the word 'villain' was shifted - it originally refers to lower class people in the feudal society - it is possible that in the world of One Piece, 'pirate' had once held a different meaning. Also, in this theory, are you assuming that Im was also a part of the Morgania?

seiryu

Excellent read, so thanks for sharing! Although I think both of us should be exempt from the competition... I wanna discuss a minor point (shouldn't affect the theory), but breadcrumbs indicate something different: > There may have been small unions of countries that were geographically close to one another, but that would be as close as it came. Way too optimistic. We are shown from Germa 66's introduction, there are wars everywhere...and this is WITH the Government ruling all of these countries (them already being "allies" under the same banner => the countries that are independent are few with only Wano Kuni and Elbaf, both can only do it because they can/could fight off the Government; my gut says Elbaf cannot now since they lost their strongest leaders). Oda wants to create a very clear black vs. white aspect with the peacemains and morganeers. So this fully goes hand in hand with the flip from the great majority being peacemains back in the Void Century and the sudden flip to majority being morganeers after the rise of the Government. The main discussion for me is how the war itself is completely skipped over. The astronomical difference in military might is not something that just flips on a switch (in most cases since there is only one presented in the plot thus far => Uranus could be, but we'll see). The organizational stuff in regards to the formation of the Government could easily have taken place after the war, so the timing of it doesn't matter, but the war suddenly shifting when a one sided beat down by the Ancient Kingdom is to be expected. Even if they were outnumbered dramatically, the technology difference is like Pacifistas fighting underling pirates. Give the Government fighters fruit abilities, and the above Vegapunk level technology still easily wins. Unless that was the intention to just completely skip over (I think stating that would help a lot). Maybe it's how my mind works, but skipping over the meat of the subject made me feel disappointed. This theory encompasses the pre and post war concepts/themes perfectly. And now that you point it out, this underlying theme of pirate vs. pirate always being the primary source perfectly fits! This is PERFECT because it now combines what is universally agreeable as one of the two final wars. There is no rationale person that is going to say the final war is not either the Blackbeard War or the war where the Government gets overthrown. This makes it MUCH more interesting because just the Mugiwara vs. Blackbeard war is going to take all of them AND at least some of their allies (I do not think the weaklings can take on a Blackbeard exec AND the entire fleet of underlings). But this fits so well...the war against 200+ countries, all the admirals, admiral candidates, Tenryuubito guards (possibly admiral level), etc. are all going to be present. So this makes sooo much sense why all of the Grand Fleet members HAVE to become world changing on their own. This final fight just jumped to a truly epic level. > but I'm not too sure about the part where the ancient kingdom being the kingdom of pirates. It's not something that I would prefer, to be honest. I think the main thing is that they have the peacemain mindset. They don't have to be "pirates" in terms of travelling the seas. We aren't shown it, but I fully expect Oda to eventually introduce weak D. clan members (non-combatants).

goldenvenus

> I think the main thing is that they have the peacemain mindset. They don't have to be "pirates" in terms of travelling the seas. We aren't shown it, but I fully expect Oda to eventually introduce weak D. clan members (non-combatants). I'm guessing Oda would probably bring up the whole peacemain and morgania thing in the future. And like I mentioned above, just like 'villain,' for all we know, in One Piece, 'pirate' could've been something like a 'traveler' or 'those who seek freedom' or something. Since Luffy did mention about not wanting to conquer anything, and just want to be someone who is the most free (that is the pirate king). I am indeed interested to see more of the D. clan. There's only a few that we've seen so far so I would like to see more. Considering how most of the D we've seen act, Law is a tiny bit different to me. And that reminds me, does Law know about meaning of D? Since he mentioned about the D causing a storm. Also, seiryu I think you mentioned before about the possibility of Dragon actually being Garp's son in law and not his real son? Is that legit or...?

jawahib

Sorry I took so long to respond bruv. I LOVE this theory. Regardless of its ultimate accuracy, it's a great read, and definitely recontextualises a lot of the pirate interactions in a really interesting way. I also second seiryu's observations that justify its greatness. Honestly my primary and only real objection is that I think this theory shows a much more pirate-centric view of One Piece history than I think we are meant to infer. For example, the idea that the Ancient Kingdom was all Pirates doesn't really make much sense to me. What good would the title of "Pirate" be to someone who just wanted to go exploring and adventuring in that age? Noland would be a great example of that: the dude was an explorer with a crew. Surely it makes more sense in your theory that rather than peacemain pirates, they would be seafaring explorers like Noland. Another reason is simply that peacemains are all about adventure and exploration; that's like the complete opposite mindset of someone wanting to establish a kingdom, so there's a gap there that needs to be filled, especially if we are to assume that the founders of the Ancient Kingdom would still continue to see themselves as pirates after the fact. NOW, you could rightly say "Isn't Shanks a perfect example of a peacemain who started a kingdom ?" And I would say "Damn, you got me there", but at this point it would come down to the definition of what a pirate is in the One Piece world (I'll come back to this in a moment). That, and I have the out of saying that Shanks is a SINGULAR example and given his history with Roger, it's almost certain that he has an ulterior motive in establishing himself as a Yonko - I would even go so far as to suggest it's the same motive that Rayleigh and Crocus have in bumming around all day: waiting for the "new dawn". And all of them have bet all of their money on Luffy. BUT this isn't my theory time, it's your theory time, so let me circle back here. It seems extremely counter-intuitive that pirates would all group together and establish an Ancient Kingdom while still labelling themselves as pirates. A pirate, by definition, is "someone who attacks and robs ships at sea". Obviously One Piece uses the term WAY more broadly than the good ol' dictionary, and so here is my best attempt at defining what One Piece takes a pirate to be: - Someone who calls themselves a pirate. As far as I can remember, we are yet to see or hear of any person called a pirate who doesn't identify as such, at least at some stage in their lives. We haven't heard of any groups that have been frightened of being labeled a "pirate" by setting out to sea. - Someone who is considered an enemy of the World Government, with the exception of the Shichibukai, who to be fair, needed to have been an enemy of the WG before gaining their status anyway. The reason this is included in the definition is because all pirates in One Piece accept their fugitive status as part of the package. Think how absolutely mind-boggling it is that Luffy, who had done not even a single crime, had to flee from the Marines after saving their base from Captain Morgan. You can argue that infiltrating and saving Zoro from execution was his crime, but those things were under Morgan's instruction, and the new team was more than willing to forgive Luffy and Zoro (since they forgave Coby). But Luffy knew that by identifying as a pirate, he was establishing himself as an enemy of the Marines, and he had absolutely no qualms with accepting this. - Someone who commands (or is a member of) a naval force. I use "naval force" a bit loosely here, as I even count Luffy's small row-boat, and Sabo's tiny sail boat as such a thing. This definition also allows me to say that Luffy wasn't a pirate until he set out to sea, which I think intuitively is quite an easy pill to swallow. And I think that's it. I probably gave the game away a bit, but a critical component here is that wanted-by-WG status. Pirates are outlaws in the OP universe, but if in the days of the Ancient Kingdom there was no authority to declare them outlaws, how, or at least why, could they be pirates? By the way, I do actually think this is all resolvable by simply changing "Peacemain pirates" to something like "Peaceful and powerful seafarers", though this changes the theory's narrative slightly, because it takes that focus off of piracy and thus, the conflict between pirate-ideologies doesn't really have much of a place anymore in the story. But again, I think that's easily fixed by just rebranding peacemains and morganeers to be something like "Peace-minded members of the Ancient Kingdom" and "Greedy opportunistic members of the Ancient Kingdom", and then sell them as being the ideological ancestors of peacemains and morganeers. Another reason I think the pirate-centric focus doesn't fit really well is that pirates weren't really prominent at all until the Great Age of Pirates according to the narrative. Sure you had the Rocks and Roger during Roger's time, but there weren't really many good reasons to be a pirate (that I could see anyway) outside of the vague wish that there was a great adventure to be had by getting in my boat and finding something worth finding. I suppose I might be proven wrong on this further down the line, but I've always had that impression that pirates weren't really a big thing until the Great Age of Pirates. At any rate, obviously my post is disproportionately critical, but please don't take that to mean I don't think this is a very well done theory.

seiryu

> I'm guessing Oda would probably bring up the whole peacemain and morgania thing in the future. And like I mentioned above, just like 'villain,' for all we know, in One Piece, 'pirate' could've been something like a 'traveler' or 'those who seek freedom' or something. Since Luffy did mention about not wanting to conquer anything, and just want to be someone who is the most free (that is the pirate king). I am indeed interested to see more of the D. clan. There's only a few that we've seen so far so I would like to see more. Considering how most of the D we've seen act, Law is a tiny bit different to me. And that reminds me, does Law know about meaning of D? Since he mentioned about the D causing a storm. Also, @seiryu I think you mentioned before about the possibility of Dragon actually being Garp's son in law and not his real son? Is that legit or...? Hmmm...maybe it does get directly mentioned (the peacemain vs. morgania aspect), but I'm slightly biased to think not. Oda tries to stay as ambiguous/politically neutral with all of his morally driven points. Giving the a clear category for people to insert bias and misinterpretation is not his style. I'd lean towards him just keeping it black and white with Luffy doing good, and Blackbeard doing evil stuff. In terms of Law, I have to think what he knows stems from Corazon. He purposefully hid his full identity until he thought Luffy could further help him out (but poor Law thought too highly of Luffy's intellect and Luffy chooses to know nothing about it). Ah, I guess Rouge fits in the non-combatants in all likeliness. For me, I attribute Law's "excessive" caution and introversion from all the crap he had to go through as a kid. Similar to Robin, he probably struggled to just stay alive after Corazon passes. Compared to most other D. members, who probably know nothing (maybe even Blackbeard too and he's just following his fate/desires), maybe Law is different because he's the only one with inside information? Yes. That's the original plan. I only wrote it once, but all of the unofficial databooks were highly respectable to Oda. Every section was written like a multiple choice question. A topic was presented, relevant references (exact pages most of the time, if not all of the time), and at least 3 "theories" were presented. For me, the "answer" was clear every single time because all the other options either contradicted a breadcrumb or still left things open-ended. They all tried their best to come up with counter theories, but the real answer is hard to hide with the perfection of previous plot points. Unless Oda is going to contradict all of the personality differences, genetic/appearance differences, etc. it is going to be very hard to write around it. Every single person I can think of has excessive correlations of genetics and almost all parts of their child. The most real world accurate use of genetics are the Mermaids/Gyojin since it truly is random genetics on what possible combination comes out. So yes, Luffy's mom/Garp's daughter is the key D. clan member that needs to be revealed. Nothing implies she is dead. If anything, it makes sense that Garp is forcefully keeping her contained once he got her away from Dragon (or Dragon left her to follow through with expanding the RA). Edit: I probably should clarify that I 100% agree with you GoldenVenus with what you are saying about the fluidity of the "pirate" definition. I was just saying it seems like Oda is oversimplifying the mindset for each. This is why it doesn't have to be mentioned in the main plot ever. Luffy doesn't like restrictions, and a classification is to a certain extent putting up some barriers. Side note: do you get a separate notification for the tag? Jawahib So GoldenVenus' response probably tackles what you are concerned about: > I'm guessing Oda would probably bring up the whole peacemain and morgania thing in the future. And like I mentioned above, just like 'villain,' for all we know, in One Piece, 'pirate' could've been something like a 'traveler' or 'those who seek freedom' or something. Since Luffy did mention about not wanting to conquer anything, and just want to be someone who is the most free (that is the pirate king).

goldenvenus

> Hmmm...maybe it does get directly mentioned (the peacemain vs. morgania aspect), but I'm slightly biased to think not. Oda tries to stay as ambiguous/politically neutral with all of his morally driven points. Giving the a clear category for people to insert bias and misinterpretation is not his style. I'd lean towards him just keeping it black and white with Luffy doing good, and Blackbeard doing evil stuff. That is true. I can't really see Luffy mentioning about the whole Peacemain thing, considering his personality. But I guess since it was mentioned in Romance Dawn, it might not be bad for it to be mentioned once when Oda starts getting into the Rocks arc. Unless Oda really is going to make it something significant. > maybe Law is different because he's the only one with inside information? That does sound plausible. In case he did get to find out a few little things, if not everything, it'd be understandable that he'd be seeing things differently. And after all they don't necessarily have to be the same, since even Teach has something different (in which he extremely fears death) unlike most of the D. For now the most similar would be Roger, Luffy and Garp I guess. So if it's indeed going to happen (Dragon being the son in law) does it mean he took their family name (Monkey)? But why though? Dragon is just so full of mysteries and Oda isn't even dropping even the slightest bit of info and I'm frustrated lol. If that will really happen, then I might think Garp's obsession with wanting his grandsons to be 'walking down the right path' has something to do with what might've happened to his daughter after Dragon decided to build the RA. Well, Dragon might also play a part, but I think it might be closely related to Luffy's mom. Though, if Luffy's mom is alive, it's a little strange that she keeps away from her own son. And it's also really strange that Garp has never, not even once, mentioned Luffy's mom. Obviously it's to tease us, but writing wise, there needs to be a good reason for him not to mention his mom at all. > Side note: do you get a separate notification for the tag? No. I just got the noti from being quoted, no notification from the tag.

seiryu

> That is true. I can't really see Luffy mentioning about the whole Peacemain thing, considering his personality. But I guess since it was mentioned in Romance Dawn, it might not be bad for it to be mentioned once when Oda starts getting into the Rocks arc. Unless Oda really is going to make it something significant. This is why I'm kinda torn. It it better for the audience to understand the concept since most of us only know the morgania stereotype. It isn't Luffy's "style" to talk about it himself, so even in the OVA, it seemed really out of place. Like Luffy doesn't expand on why he wants to be Pirate King (since it is going to spoil part of the "real ending" in all likeliness). So maybe something where the narrator comments on one of the huge wars and tells us the peacemain vs. morgania aspect?> And after all they don't necessarily have to be the same, since even Teach has something different (in which he extremely fears death) unlike most of the D. For now the most similar would be Roger, Luffy and Garp I guess. Ah, I got a completely different take on Blackbeard. He's so petty and caught up in his dream of ruling the world that he only fears death because it means he doesn't get to live his grandiose dream out. He's still willing to "stake his life" for his dream like all other D. members (how extensive and perfect his plan is reflects this). However, he is the epitome of the "evil" side and is only out for the personal benefit. He is probably fully capable of dealing with the physical death (just like how he excels at handling extreme pain but overreacts to it => someone like Luffy would just grit his teeth and show minimal signs rather than writhing in pain which is why it's only something life threatening that makes Luffy do something like that). > Hmmm...maybe it does get directly mentioned (the peacemain vs. morgania aspect), but I'm slightly biased to think not. Oda tries to stay as ambiguous/politically neutral with all of his morally driven points. Giving the a clear category for people to insert bias and misinterpretation is not his style. I'd lean towards him just keeping it black and white with Luffy doing good, and Blackbeard doing evil stuff. That is true. I can't really see Luffy mentioning about the whole Peacemain thing, considering his personality. But I guess since it was mentioned in Romance Dawn, it might not be bad for it to be mentioned once when Oda starts getting into the Rocks arc. Unless Oda really is going to make it something significant. > maybe Law is different because he's the only one with inside information? That does sound plausible. In case he did get to find out a few little things, if not everything, it'd be understandable that he'd be seeing things differently. And after all they don't necessarily have to be the same, since even Teach has something different (in which he extremely fears death) unlike most of the D. For now the most similar would be Roger, Luffy and Garp I guess. So if it's indeed going to happen (Dragon being the son in law) does it mean he took their family name (Monkey)? But why though? Dragon is just so full of mysteries and Oda isn't even dropping even the slightest bit of info and I'm frustrated lol. If that will really happen, then I might think Garp's obsession with wanting his grandsons to be 'walking down the right path' has something to do with what might've happened to his daughter after Dragon decided to build the RA. Well, Dragon might also play a part, but I think it might be closely related to Luffy's mom. Though, if Luffy's mom is alive, it's a little strange that she keeps away from her own son. And it's also really strange that Garp has never, not even once, mentioned Luffy's mom. Obviously it's to tease us, but writing wise, there needs to be a good reason for him not to mention his mom at all. > Side note: do you get a separate notification for the tag? No. I just got the noti from being quoted, no notification from the tag. Ah thanks. I kept asking people, but never got a response. I don't know coding, so I just needed to know the mechanics if it is possible to get a tag notification from an edited post. So the editors expanded on how Dragon wanted and needed the D. name for his RA dreams. Dragon is not a "natural enemy", but inheriting the name makes him astronomically more legitimate in both recruiting people to join and also when he finally makes his move against the Government. So they talked about how Dragon purposefully was seeking out a female D. to marry, and per the story being created, Luffy's mom is the black sheep of the family , somehow goes along with it. Nothing more is added, so this is why I think Garp is keeping her in a safe house someplace. I don't think so on the not seeing Luffy part. This is ALLLLLLL Garp's decision. He doesn't want Luffy to be like his daughter and tried to keep Luffy on the path to becoming a Marine. Her being kept in this safe house also matches because if she escapes, she goes out and adds to the chaos. She is HUGE. She has inside information on the RA, inside information on Marines/potential Government stuff (at the very least important historical Marine events like Rocks, which is all classified/being kept hidden until Oda wants us to know), and she may be a legitimate fighter too! Luffy isn't smart like Dragon, so she probably had to muscle her way into freedom => she was able to keep up with PRIME Garp. I need to make a separate theory on this now that I'm typing it out. Either way, let's end the tangent here since this isn't my thread. I'd be more than happy to continue in the theory thread, which I'll type up now.

Marco Polo

Sorry I'm late! I'll get to responses now > It does sound plausible that the two sides had a massive war, but I'm not too sure about the part where the ancient kingdom being the kingdom of pirates. It's not something that I would prefer, to be honest. > Another reason is simply that peacemains are all about adventure and exploration; that's like the complete opposite mindset of someone wanting to establish a kingdom, so there's a gap there that needs to be filled, especially if we are to assume that the founders of the Ancient Kingdom would still continue to see themselves as pirates after the fact. NOW, you could rightly say "Isn't Shanks a perfect example of a peacemain who started a kingdom ?" And I would say "Damn, you got me there", but at this point it would come down to the definition of what a pirate is in the One Piece world (I'll come back to this in a moment). That, and I have the out of saying that Shanks is a SINGULAR example and given his history with Roger, it's almost certain that he has an ulterior motive in establishing himself as a Yonko - I would even go so far as to suggest it's the same motive that Rayleigh and Crocus have in bumming around all day: waiting for the "new dawn". And all of them have bet all of their money on Luffy. BUT this isn't my theory time, it's your theory time, so let me circle back here. It seems extremely counter-intuitive that pirates would all group together and establish an Ancient Kingdom while still labelling themselves as pirates. Ah, I probably should have been a little clearer with this. When I say a kingdom of pirates, I don't necessarily mean it in the sense that it's a kingdom that runs in the same way as say, Alabasta, but with pirates in charge. There were more than likely "regular" citizens in the Ancient Kingdom too. I'd even argue that there was a large community of scientists as well, who were likely responsible for the Ancient Weapons and potentially even the One Piece (dependent on what it is). The people of this kingdom support Joy Boy and the Peacemains, and are supportive of them as a source of power. I'll talk about it a little more later on in the post, but I imagine being a pirate back then was probably more akin to being an adventurer - it's the formation of the WG that led to piracy being criminalised, and I think that sudden change of perception from "Pirates are adventurers" to "Pirates are criminals" is what's led to the piracy in One Piece's "New Era". I did touch on this a little - > The Ancient Kingdom was likely the only country with the means to travel the world, and their era was likely similar to that of Columbus and the other privateers who travelled the world, minus the horrendous colonisation. Well, at least it was that way for a while. So a "Kingdom of Pirates" in this era likely runs on a definition of piracy that's very different to the one we're used to, and it was the birth of the Morganeers' ideology that shifted what it meant to be a pirate. > Also, in this theory, are you assuming that Im was also a part of the Morgania? I haven't really factored Im into this theory because he's still such an unknown variable. One possible explanation of who Im is could be that he's an ex-Morganeer who decided to support the formation of the WG in order to get back at the Peacemains. He may well have been the original Morganeer as well - eventually deciding that being the head of the WG was the best route to his success. > Way too optimistic. We are shown from Germa 66's introduction, there are wars everywhere...and this is WITH the Government ruling all of these countries (them already being "allies" under the same banner => the countries that are independent are few with only Wano Kuni and Elbaf, both can only do it because they can/could fight off the Government; my gut says Elbaf cannot now since they lost their strongest leaders). Oda wants to create a very clear black vs. white aspect with the peacemains and morganeers. So this fully goes hand in hand with the flip from the great majority being peacemains back in the Void Century and the sudden flip to majority being morganeers after the rise of the Government. Yeah I highly suspect countries were all isolationist to an extent, which is why the Peacemains were so influential in the "Old World" . > The main discussion for me is how the war itself is completely skipped over. The astronomical difference in military might is not something that just flips on a switch (in most cases since there is only one presented in the plot thus far => Uranus could be, but we'll see). The organizational stuff in regards to the formation of the Government could easily have taken place after the war, so the timing of it doesn't matter, but the war suddenly shifting when a one sided beat down by the Ancient Kingdom is to be expected. Even if they were outnumbered dramatically, the technology difference is like Pacifistas fighting underling pirates. Give the Government fighters fruit abilities, and the above Vegapunk level technology still easily wins. Unless that was the intention to just completely skip over (I think stating that would help a lot). Maybe it's how my mind works, but skipping over the meat of the subject made me feel disappointed. I'd be happy to elaborate somewhat on this, actually. So I think with regards to how the Peacemain vs. Morganeer war played out, I think the Alabasta and Dressrosa arcs are probably the ideal reference points. The role the Peacemains likely played would have been similar to the role Luffy played in those arcs. As the AK pirates pretty much had free reign over the world, it may well have been that small Morganeer factions were already set up in a number of kingdoms, and when they decided to strike, that's when they brought in a larger cavalry. Countries wouldn't have been completely defenseless, but the Peacemains' presence is what shifts the tide of each war. The WG likely took several years to form once the Morganeer threat was removed, and in that time a lot of countries would have been thinking about their military might. In the time the WG was taking to form, countries would have been focusing more intently on training strong fighters, developing new weapons etc. The Ancient Kingdom themselves may have had a role in this too - they may well have gifted the countries they helped protect with arms should they need them in the future. The formation of the WG is essentially the 20 royal families "double-crossing" the Ancient Kingdom. And even once the WG was formed, it would have taken more time to train up forces capable of taking down the Ancient Kingdom (i.e. the Marines, or the earliest incarnation thereof). There's 100 years of time to play around with, so it's not like the tides would have turned overnight. > And I think that's it. I probably gave the game away a bit, but a critical component here is that wanted-by-WG status. Pirates are outlaws in the OP universe, but if in the days of the Ancient Kingdom there was no authority to declare them outlaws, how, or at least why, could they be pirates? By the way, I do actually think this is all resolvable by simply changing "Peacemain pirates" to something like "Peaceful and powerful seafarers", though this changes the theory's narrative slightly, because it takes that focus off of piracy and thus, the conflict between pirate-ideologies doesn't really have much of a place anymore in the story. But again, I think that's easily fixed by just rebranding peacemains and morganeers to be something like "Peace-minded members of the Ancient Kingdom" and "Greedy opportunistic members of the Ancient Kingdom", and then sell them as being the ideological ancestors of peacemains and morganeers. So I've touched on it above, but I think the current status of "pirate" is something that's evolved over time. Joy Boy and co. may not have called themselves pirates, but they would have shared the Peacemain/Morganeer ideologies. Noland is an ideal example of what the AK "pirates" would have been, actually (I could dive more into Noland being a pirate in spirit but not in legal status because his country endorsed his adventures, but I might veer too wildly off topic). There's a few explanations for the whole "pirate" dilemma you've brought up: 1. The term "pirate" was coined by the Morganeers as they went on their quest for world domination, and when the WG formed they decided to use it as an umbrella term for all Ancient Kingdom adventurers. 2. The term "pirate" may not have started off with criminal connotations, and Peacemains may have referred to themselves as pirates from the get-go, but the criminal antics of the Morganeers eventually led to the term becoming associated with criminality. 3. The World Government themselves coined the term "pirate" when they launched their attack on the Ancient Kingdom, having the definition encompass all the adventurers from that land. Of these explanations, I prefer 1 and 2, given the existence of Noland, but 3 is still a slight possibility. > That is true. I can't really see Luffy mentioning about the whole Peacemain thing, considering his personality. But I guess since it was mentioned in Romance Dawn, it might not be bad for it to be mentioned once when Oda starts getting into the Rocks arc. Unless Oda really is going to make it something significant. > This is why I'm kinda torn. It it better for the audience to understand the concept since most of us only know the morgania stereotype. It isn't Luffy's "style" to talk about it himself, so even in the OVA, it seemed really out of place. Like Luffy doesn't expand on why he wants to be Pirate King (since it is going to spoil part of the "real ending" in all likeliness). So maybe something where the narrator comments on one of the huge wars and tells us the peacemain vs. morgania aspect? So as far as the main story goes, I think it's entirely possible that the terms "Peacemain" and "Morganeer" are never explicitly used in the story. Luffy will most certainly never refer to himself as a Peacemain, but by watching his actions and comparing them to other pirates (Blackbeard and co.), we can see that his ideology and stance on what it means to be a pirate is different to the majority of his contemporaries. Another character may bring up those terms, but I don't think they particularly need to be explained to us since we know Luffy so well already.

seiryu

> Yeah I highly suspect countries were all isolationist to an extent, which is why the Peacemains were so influential in the "Old World" . Unless the Peacemains are actively recruiting people from around the world, the genetic diversity does not occur. We don't know the geography of any of the other Blues, but based on East Blue, navigation is a necessity to live in the world. With islands having limited resources, inter-island trade drives navigational advancements (Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia can still outdo modern technology with traditional knowledge). I don't know the mechanics of viking navigation, but it sounds similar. I guess the problem for me is that is isolation is the case, that means everyone was dependent on Ancient Kingdom technology, which doesn't seem the case since there is still the astronomical gap in the technology for the majority of the world. So with the astronomical technology difference, even the outsiders who are accepted and become the expansion in terms of population of the Ancient Kingdom (and thus the genetic variation), should all be "scientist" relative to the level of technology in the rest of the world. I do agree that with the constant theme of freedom, everyone has different roles/jobs though. Ah, I guess this could be how the Morganeers start since they are the lazy ones that don't want to work and contribute to society.> So I think with regards to how the Peacemain vs. Morganeer war played out, I think the Alabasta and Dressrosa arcs are probably the ideal reference points. The role the Peacemains likely played would have been similar to the role Luffy played in those arcs. As the AK pirates pretty much had free reign over the world, it may well have been that small Morganeer factions were already set up in a number of kingdoms, and when they decided to strike, that's when they brought in a larger cavalry. Countries wouldn't have been completely defenseless, but the Peacemains' presence is what shifts the tide of each war. The WG likely took several years to form once the Morganeer threat was removed, and in that time a lot of countries would have been thinking about their military might. In the time the WG was taking to form, countries would have been focusing more intently on training strong fighters, developing new weapons etc. The Ancient Kingdom themselves may have had a role in this too - they may well have gifted the countries they helped protect with arms should they need them in the future. The formation of the WG is essentially the 20 royal families "double-crossing" the Ancient Kingdom. And even once the WG was formed, it would have taken more time to train up forces capable of taking down the Ancient Kingdom (i.e. the Marines, or the earliest incarnation thereof). There's 100 years of time to play around with, so it's not like the tides would have turned overnight. Ah, I got ya now. The mutual threat of Morgania led the Ancient Kingdom to bestow the advanced technology...makes sense. But where is that technology now? Every Marine should be firing lasers and stuff. If advanced technology was common place, how did it just suddenly disappear? The power-hungry Tenryuubito wouldn't just give all of this new found power away. If anything, they would have kept it for themselves to guarantee they stay in power over everyone. So based on this, the technology gap was a constant throughout the Void Century. Ah, even more so in terms of the daily conveniences. The Tenryuubito would have them and keep them for themselves. Based on the technology gap in the current time, all the Moon Resident level technology was lost when the Ancient Kingdom got destroyed. Yes, you could theoretically say the Tenryuubito gathered it all up and willingly chose to destroy it all. I'd be willing to bet they were all evil from back then since characters are very black vs. white. Based on Vegapunk, Germa 66, their science-buddies, and Caesar, the access to money allowed for research and technology to develop over the 800 (?ish) years.

wontroba

Really appreciated the reading, was not only a great theory but also a nice way to remember a bunch of details about all the OP history. Altough, I have to point that maybe you should've worked more on the reasons why the Void Century was actually erased from history itself. For me, the way you pointed out, the WG should be proud of themselves and therefore they would show the hole world what they were capable of (beating the morganeers and stuff). It could also work as a way to avoid new aspiring morganeers. That being said, WG would rather people knowing about everything that happened during that century than erasing it from history.

seiryu

wontroba

> Really appreciated the reading, was not only a great theory but also a nice way to remember a bunch of details about all the OP history. Altough, I have to point that maybe you should've worked more on the reasons why the Void Century was actually erased from history itself. For me, the way you pointed out, the WG should be proud of themselves and therefore they would show the hole world what they were capable of (beating the morganeers and stuff). It could also work as a way to avoid new aspiring morganeers. That being said, WG would rather people knowing about everything that happened during that century than erasing it from history. Welcome to our community and glad you liked the theory enough to join in on the discussion! For me, there is some sort of twist that the Government does not want anyone to learn (this is probably what makes Roger and the entire crew laugh when they see One Piece or whatever they saw on Laugh Tale). Context implies this knowledge allows for the overthrow of the Government. I 100% agree that their pettiness implies they would want to gloat about their victory, but because mentioning the victory gives part of the information leading to this ultimate secret they are just making everything taboo. I totally understand your point and I actually agree with it, but the way that I see in regard to the theory itself there is some missing link. Like, there are two main pirate groups (A and B), group A doesn't like group B and they battle and all that stuff. Then a new group C, this one representing the upcoming WG, beats the bad group (A or B idk) and the hole century disappears. I feel like some conection is missing, something like as if you were reading a book and you decide to skip from chapter 20 to 24. For me, something happened between the "conquest battle" of WG vs Pirates and the disappearance of this century and this link could've been more explored.

seiryu

> I feel like some conection is missing, something like as if you were reading a book and you decide to skip from chapter 20 to 24. For me, something happened between the "conquest battle" of WG vs Pirates and the disappearance of this century and this link could've been more explored. Yes, this is purposefully left out. This point came out in the discussion, but it gets to be an even longer read, so this might turn off some people who don't like text walls.