>
Nothing we have learnt about Kaido thus far suggests that he would have been opposed to having a daughter. In fact, given that his own child decides to identify as the one person who has left a lasting wound on him, do you not think he'd be against it?
Lying about the gender from the very start is nothing? How has Kaidou responded whenever Oden is brought up? Why did Yamato hide her face until only recently?
Umm...Kaidou is hating everything that Yamato does. Kaidou hates Yamato for being a female, hates that she is "weak", hates that she can't just be obedient, hates that she has taken to honor and even worship (the whole "my bible") Oden. So again, what part of any part of Kaidou does Yamato agree with or take a liking to? They HATE each other. I sure as hell would hate a father that has done 0.00001% of the things Kaidou has done to Yamato. >
The only part of Yamato that has "submitted" to Kaido's dream is the part that's afraid to leave Wano for fear of being blown up by explosive handcuffs. He has his own goal, and it is very far removed from Kaido's. It's Kaido that is trying to shoehorn Yamato into his plans, not Yamato trying to force his way into Kaido's.
Why are low ranking pawns unable to recognize Yamato without the mask? The fact she is a female was hidden. If she wasn't submitting, she just goes around without a mask and flaunts that she is a genetic female based on what you're saying. There is zero need for a mask. There was a massive cover up.
If it isn't submission, why play along? Why is Yamato only rebelling against Kaidou upon meeting Luffy? She has been submissive to Kaidou. The plans only come about because of Luffy. Sure Yamato had the dreams, but it was never verbalized and there was never any attempt to rebel. If Yamato wanted to ruin Kaidou's plans, all of the aspects of submission are direct means to mess the plan up.
The arrogance of Kaidou is why he still expects Yamato to succeed and has mentioned that in the real time of the plot too. Fighting back to not get further beaten during "training" doesn't seem like rebelling to me. Oda isn't giving much context for what you are trying to imply and that's what I'm going to keep pointing to. The male identification is directly tied to mental trauma. This is a slippery slope at best and this is the core of the issue. >
Okay so I would just like to clarify that personally, whatever Yamato's decision is regarding his identity by the end of Wano (whether he decides to continue "living as Oden", or he decides to identify as a woman again) is okay with me, as long as it is Yamato's decision. So even if he decides not to be male any more, I am fine with that, as long as the decision is explained to us. Even if it's as simple as, "I've decided I no longer want to be Oden, and I want to be Yamato again. So from now on, I want to be referred to as a woman", that is enough.
Perfect, I'm glad we are on the same page for this aspect...I gotta be honest that I'm only reading avoidance of the main issue. >
To stress - it does not matter to me if Yamato is transgender. However, all characters that have spoken to him in the series have referred to him as "he", "Young Master", or "Kaido's son". The only source of confusion comes from when Oda introduces him as "Kaido's Daughter". That does imply some conflict in gender identity, which will hopefully be resolved (creating your "ideal situation"). The issue I have (I cannot speak for Weeby here) is that people seem to be reluctant to respect Yamato's wish to be referred to as a "he", for whatever reason (I have an idea as to what the reason is, and I'll talk about it in a second).
Even if the situation is "flawed", or not as clear cut as O-Kiku's, that's actually quite accurate to the experiences some non-binary people go through (changing of gender identities etc.) So even if Yamato's preferred pronoun does change later, that's a problem for later. It's about respecting his current choice to identify as a man. I'm not rooting for Yamato to be a trans man, I'm rooting for people to use the identifier Yamato has chosen for himself (and to do so even if that identifier changes).
Does that make sense?
Then why are you (and Weeby per the above post since I don't know what's below), ignoring the main context and limiting factor of Kaidou and Yamato hating each other? They have the exact opposite views/morals. So again, what part of any Kaidou decision is Yamato happy/agree with?
IF things are not 50-50, all of what you post is 100% on point. We do not have Yamato say "I want to be identified as a male". It is the kiddy dream of being free and being able to go on an adventure. And this is FINE considering how crappy of a childhood and teenage life Yamato had.
So again, what is "official"? Nothing is set in stone. And nothing Kaidou does lines up with what Yamato agrees with. There is 20ish years of submission. The greatest submission is in the hiding of her face and breast (the first image of Yamato isn't 100% clear, but it 100% wasn't the "biggest perv in the world" physique we see now).
What you are arguing for makes sense IF we take away the context of Yamato not agreeing with anything Kaidou does. Where is the rebellion?
Ah, let me state that I will 100% agree the "stupid meat heads" that are only thinking with their smaller head is absolutely terrible. We have had ZERO of this here. If I was the first to read it, I would put that in place. However, Oda, like everything else, is purposefully keeping things vague and 50-50. This entire thread reeks of testing fan response to determine what to do. But that is probably the smart thing to do since this is obviously a sensitive topic for some (and why many people are not posting here at all).
There are no foreshadowing/concrete breadcrumbs here. These are few and most of the "concrete/100% certain stuff" is based on when it matches Oda's patterns of his writing style. And these instances are supported by all of the context pointing in that direction...and in this instance...context is pointing in the opposite direction.
I would not be here if I wasn't open minded about equality since it's been a huge factor since way back at OPF. It was astronomically more subtle, but I will always be driven by context. The two main points for me are nothing here is official and context is not pointing in a good direction. Thus, the "ideal situation" is what only makes it "official" to me. Mental trauma not being the driving factor is impossible to my bias. Because of the context, Yamato's decision can literally go in EITHER direction upon Kaidou's defeat. This is 100% a 50-50 situation. So again, why the avoidance of the definitive question? I will stand up just as strong IF we have stupid meat heads. We have none of this however. Either that or it is outside of the One Piece section. >
Before I type what I am about to type, I would just like to make one thing clear. @seiryu - what I am about to type is not specifically aimed at you. It's more a general thought on the big debate around Yamato being a "he" or a "she".
The Wano arc has given us two characters who identify as a different gender to the one they were born with - Yamato and Kiku.
Yamato is actually quite commonly thought of as a woman within the OP fandom. Even though Yamato is referred to as male in the manga, and has said that he has become a man, he is still quite commonly referred to as a he.
Kiku, however, was initially assumed to be a woman because of her facial features. When it was revealed she was biologically male but a "woman at heart", people generally seemed more accepting of the idea of Kiku being a she; much more so than Yamato being a he.
The reason that I think there's a difference in acceptance (this is my personal opinion) is mainly because both characters are feminine-looking, and therefore a lot of the male One Piece audience are attracted to them. Kiku is flat-chested, but has a very feminine face, which makes it easier to accept that she's a she. Also, we only ever see Kiku fully dressed, so we do not see the masculine body underneath her clothes - if we really wanted to, we could fantasise about her having lady bits, just not the usual large boobies that Oda draws his women with.
Yamato, however, is built like a very typical "One Piece woman" - big boobs, pretty face, small waist. For a lot of people who like looking at Yamato from the standpoint of being attracted to woman, they don't want to refer to him as a man despite that being his wish because that makes him more difficult to sexualise. Referring to Yamato as a "he" goes very much against male sexual instinct because he has the body of an attractive woman, and that's why I think there's a general problem with him being misgendered (again, this is NOT why I think seiryu has an issue with it)
Those are my two cents on it anyways.
Perfect, I think we already started to bridge the gap since we have this distinction on my bias and what is probably the "big picture" argument.
I would be stupid to say if the big boobs aspect is not the primary driving factor. So again, this is actually stupid on Oda's part. The context is quite bad to introduce a strong transgender character. There's the entire mental trauma aspect to clean up. The "ideal situation" is the only answer if we are rooting for pro-LGBT outcomes. I am 50-50 because I already see both sides. It is purely her decision (and again my bias is based on the negative of the male identification). >
@seiryu I didn’t realize that I was coming across as being “flustered” or whatever. I just thought that I was beginning to ramble as I’m prone to do.
I am solely going off the last time we had a discussion on this topic, you massively flared up in all aspects. It ain't worth nothing if something even close happens again.
I'm quite confident that the last bits here should bridge the gap. I am in 100% agreement if we are anti "stupid meat heads". My gripe is that we have zero of this in the One Piece section. Mentioning this here hopefully doesn't bring up any negativity since one of the major sparks was in the anime section.
My responses should be the perfect example. Context makes everything. Just because it reads a certain way doesn't mean that's what is meant/intended. Since I've done nothing but literary analysis my entire life, I would be stupid to say if this is not a big part of my ability to be highly objective no matter what the topic of who I am discussing a topic with.
I'm going to "twist the knife" and "rip posts apart" because context is not matching up. If we are discussing something completely different (stupid meat heads is a completely different subject to me), then that should be mentioned from the start because the purely One Piece plot/breadcrumb aspect is what I've been getting irked about. If we change the topic/focus, we already 100% agree. IF this was the goal, then maybe it should come from someone like me. The biggest support has to come from those outside of the oppressed group.
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