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Okay just to be clear, are you saying Zoro > Katakuri?
Prior to the most recent fights (i.e. even with Enma) I would have said no, but with Zoro having haoshoku and all of these other power-ups from the top of Onigashima I would 100% say yes. Katakuri's only clear advantage is foresight kenbunshoku. Zoro has displayed greater speed (keeping up with Yonkou fighting legitimately), destructive power, physical strength, defensive capabilities, etc. I'm struggling to think of any stat/category other than experience (which is probably about equal since it seems that skirmishes with powerhouses are quite rare) that Katakuri is above Zoro (with potentially B.S. levels of sudden increase).
All of this stems from haki. If the Yonkou are not using any haki, then things are actually still connected/believable to a high extent. But to answer the main question, Zoro just has to unleash his Enma attack. He is faster than Katakuri and it is so damn big that it doesn't matter if Katakuri sees the future of it coming.>
It really depends on how wide you make the tiers, and how you define what a Yonko Executive is. For example, a character like Marco is(was) a Yonko executive, but he was shown to be able to defend himself against an Admiral, be capable of leading a charge against Blackbeard, and he can handle fighting two people of the same “rank” as him relatively okay. Compare him to say, Daifuku or Oven, who are executives by name, and you see that they’re probably in different tiers.
We’re at the later stages of the series and Oda has a LOT of characters in play. I’d be inclined to agree that some of the Supernovas (Kidd/Killer/Law and possibly Drake) will end up in a tier of their own in between the Yonko commanders and the Yonko, as will some of the Shichibukai (Mihawk/Boa Hancock/Weevil?) once we see the aftermath of the Reverie. The problem is, those characters are only really coming into play now, so it’s only post Wano/Reverie that we can get an idea of where those guys stand strength-wise if that makes sense?
The problem is that Oda is in general not willing to show us power ups before Luffy uses them. Just like the Yonkou currently, context is directly saying all of the Yonkou execs are not fighting seriously. We don't see any of them using haki (King once, but I don't think even Marco has used haki against anyone in any of his fights). Just like Luffy, everyone has to warm up and is messing around just for the sake of making sure the plot has drama. It is plot armor and especially with both WCI and Wano Kuni, it becomes a massacre that ends the series if the baddies fight seriously.
Oven right off the bat: his power is lame UNTIL we see that he can heat up the entire ocean for a wide range (both length and depth). The instantaneous manner that he does this means that he could easily kill people if he used this in the air. He has the perfect defense even for haki (excluding haoshoku coating). Even with haki, people get severely burned with anything that isn't a projectile. Unless the projectile has haki, it gets melted or at least warped.
Same can be said for Marco in that we don't see him fight seriously with haki either. So my gripe is that things are extra speculative until we see a character fight in a climax fight. And this is the biggest problem with the B.S. in that Oda had to weaken characters/make them dilly-dally so that the protagonists don't just die.
It is completely up to Oda. How much he expands the New World arcs (or cuts off years of manga content with having Kaidou and Big Mom defeated in this arc) is up to him. We potentially could have multiple tiers in this new range if we have every New World arc having the normal One Piece mechanics of a step up in competition with each arc.
The big difference is that Supernovas are showing they are clearly below this level now, while people like the Shichibukai/level 6 inmates/other New World powerhouses are already there. The anime shows Kaidou and Moria clashing with haoshoku coloring effects. The massive extent of the world makes it so that there are necessary contradictions and especially with haki. And that's the problem for me. Oda could have easily avoided all of this by never introducing B.S. One tiny change of making WCI a victory rather than a defeat is now steadily expanding the B.S. The content shows us and confirms what power levels/rankings/tiers should be. Plot armor necessitated changes to it.>
So I feel like there HAS to be a discernible difference between being the strongest swordsman and the strongest fighter. If there isn’t, then Mihawk would quite literally be #1 strength-wise in the OPverse. He’s certainly strong, but he isn’t #1, nor is he top 10. There are so many characters that you HAVE to give top spots to (Yonko/Admirals make up 9 of the 10, and Dragon is the likely tenth), but also i don’t see him defeating any of the characters I’ve mentioned. Luffy could also probably counter him now too.
Umm...this completely disregards the MASSIVE benefits blades give. There's a reason Roger, Whitebeard, Kaidou, Shanks, Big Mom, etc. all use blades as their primary weapon. Even Kizaru and Aokiji create logia blades, so they can have the exact same benefits.
Zoro is still on a completely different scale of physical capabilities, but blades and haki bridge the gap. Mihawk's mastery of blade haki (the strongest techniques for offense and defense) guarantees he is among the strongest in the world. Oda would not be making such huge benefits for blades if not. Either that, or he has to introduce something new that cannot be used by blades. This then contradicts Roger and Whitebeard then. It's all already a huge mess...>
Are the Yonko weaker than they should be, or have we built them up to be far more invincible than they actually are?
Context/breadcrumbs. It is B.S. because it contradicts what was previously and clearly established. The B.S. is nothing but a cheap cop out to run away from the complexity that was created. Something, and as the discussions are showing, MULTIPLE aspects are being contradicted. Taking skirmishes as "climax action" is inaccurate to me because of plot armor. Oda only shows us real power levels with the climax fights. So there is a loophole that we have yet to see Roger or Whitebeard fully fight to their 100%. If you want a "boring adventure", then that's your choice. I've been clear from the Frog-Carrot B.S. that even minor B.S. is nothing but bad news for One Piece.>
So I kind of wanted to address these two points together because they’re connected. Annoyingly, Haki and strength have been synonymous post-timeskip, so I can see where you’re coming from. However, I’m not sure how much we should lean into the black blade as a sign of where Mihawk stands vs. current characters. Roger didn’t have a black blade, nor did Whitebeard (he should theoretically be able to turn his spear tip black). Mihawk himself acknowledged that he was nowhere near Whitebeard in Marineford.
Perfect, since I just wrote about this. I fully expect Oda to do revisionist history that they are black blades. Unless he has a plan for something even greater, at this moment blades and haki are the strongest techniques in the world. I'm completely blanking on Mihawk making any comparison of himself. If anything it is the opposite, I'm pretty sure Mihawk is included in the shocked faces of seeing Whitebeard get stabbed. If anything, Mihawk makes a comment on confirming Whitebeard's previously holding the title of strongest in the world. And we don't know for sure until we see all of them fight in climax fights. For Whitebeard and Roger, this probably won't happen.
The biggest problem is that Hawkins is quite accurate of Supernova power levels. Even Luffy in Gear Fourth is quite different, but still could fit into the same tier. We'll see how Oda handles clarifying what is above that since it is all in flux right now.>
I alluded to the idea of “strongest swordsman” and “strongest fighter” being two different things earlier, but now I think I should elaborate. Being a “pure” swordsman and being a fighter who uses a sword are likely very different in the approach to training and the eventual skill sets gained. Zoro and Mihawk are masters of their craft, and disciples to the art of swordsmanship. The black blade is a sign you’ve reached the pinnacle of what it means to be a swordsman in the OP universe, but it’s a very specialised, almost niche, application of Haki. To me, it’s a sign that they’re strong, but it doesn’t make them the strongEST, if that makes sense? The Kuja warriors do something similar with their arrows, but I don’t think that makes them stronger than fighters who can’t apply their Haki to permanently coat a weapon/projectile. TL;DR is that strongest within their art =/= strongest overall.
Now on to the “you can’t take away Mihawk’s black blade”. That’s correct and I do not dispute that. It’s a feat he has and it’s one he worked to achieve. However, one thing that has been made abundantly clear post-timeskip is that Haki blooms in battle, and Mihawk has not been doing much of that, aside from chasing the odd pirate fleet out of the Grand Line (hi Don Kreig). He hasn’t been challenged, and the conditions for his Haki to grow aren’t being met, so he’s likely reached a plateau in terms of strength. Yes, it’s a high plateau, but it’s not as high as it once seemed, especially considering how much Zoro has grown over the course of the Wano arc alone. After this arc is done, I genuinely think he’s ready to fight Mihawk. And if that fight is actually going to happen, it’s very much around the corner. The only pre-requisite I have for this fight, though, is that he completely tames Enma. It’s taking too much of a toll on him to use now, but once he can make that strength his own, he’s going to give Mihawk a real run for his money.
I am in full agreement with what is stated. I do think context is off. I think it is as simple as asking do you see ANY technique stronger than blades plus haki? Haoshoku coating is even greater with a blade...so this is why Oda clarifies Luffy's usages against Kaidou. He is at a disadvantage and has to have greater force behind his attack with a kick to match Kaidou's club.