Luffy & Roger's Dream - The Secret Oda's Been Keeping From Us... - Void Century Club - [One Piece - Anime - Manga - Games

Luffy & Roger's Dream - The Secret Oda's Been Keeping From Us...

Marco Polo

Luffy & Roger's "True" Dream - The 1,000 Chapter Secret WARNING - PLEASE READ CHAPTER 1,000 BEFORE YOU READ THIS THREAD Chapter 1,000 of One Piece was a milestone for the series in more ways than one. As well as the series hitting the 4-digit mark in terms of chapter count, we also finally saw Luffy step up to the level where he can finally reunite with Shanks, as was promised back in Romance Dawn. But most importantly, we learn something very important about Luffy's dream. Yes, he declares he's going to become Pirate King at the end of the chapter, but through the flashback of Yamato and Ace, we learn that there's something else to Luffy's dream that we haven't been told about yet. And we also learn that whatever it is Luffy wants to do is the exact same thing that Gol D. Roger, the Pirate King himself, wanted to do as well. Source: One Piece Chapter 1,000 (Shueisha) Now, the similarities between Luffy, Roger and their ways of thinking have been highlighted since Sabaody, when Rayleigh tells us about a conversation he had with Shanks: Source: One Piece Chapter 506 (Shueisha) Now, before this chapter, we didn't really read much into that. Both of them wanted to become the Pirate King, right? Well, as it turns out, not quite. Roger was the one who first became Pirate King, but when he did, it wasn't something that people actively sought out to do - it was his execution that led to pirates chasing the One Piece and gunning to fill Roger's "throne". Essentially, Roger is the one who allowed pirates to start dreaming of becoming "Pirate King", but that wasn't his goal when he set out to sea. This leaves us with one question - what was Roger's dream? * Oda's Censorship of their Dream To kick things off, it's worth mentioning that I think whatever Roger's (and by extension Luffy's) dream was hasn't been mentioned in the story, at least in direct relation to either of the two of them. The moment where both declare this mystery dream has been deliberately censored by Oda: Source: One Piece Chapter 966 (Shueisha) Source: One Piece Chapter 585 (Shueisha) The deliberate omission of the second half of that sentence, followed by the identical reactions from the people they declare their dreams to (Oden/Newgate for Roger, Ace/Sabo for Luffy) suggest that whatever Roger and Luffy said, aside from being ridiculous, would give something away that Oda's been spending a lot of time protecting. Although it's still almost impossible to decipher exactly what their dream is (there are a lot of possibilities), we can definitely take a guess. But first... * What Their Dream Isn't The first thing I want to do is highlight that whatever this dream is, it's incredibly childish in nature, based on Whitebeard asking Roger if "he's a kid", and by Ace and Oden's general bewilderment at whatever this dream is. This automatically rules out any more "noble" goals that people may suggest, like "I want to overthrow the World Government", or "I want to unite the four seas". Whatever Luffy and Roger's declaration is is incredibly simple. With that note out of the way, let's start thinking about what it could be... * What Is Their Dream? Firstly, it's important to note that whatever this dream is, finding One Piece is a big part of achieving it. However, based on Roger's conversation with Oden and Whitebeard, it's not so much the One Piece itself, it's the achievement of becoming the "biggest pirate crew in the world" that's important, rather than the treasure itself. We have to remember that Roger is chasing the One Piece completely blind as to what it is, indifferent to whether it actually exists or not. This panel from Luffy's first encounter with Rayleigh suggests that he feels the same: Source: One Piece Chapter 507 (Shueisha) Essentially, what's more important to Luffy than actually finding the One Piece is that the adventure is fun. He could get to the final island and find nothing, and he'd likely be able to brush it off with an "oh well". Now, that might sound hard to believe, but I genuinely think this is how Luffy views the "finding the treasure" aspect of his journey. To get you on my side here, we have to go all the way back to East Blue, to Luffy, Zoro and Nami's encounter with a certain man: Source: One Piece Chapter 22 (Shueisha) In case that panel didn't jog your memory, here's the basics of what happened: - Luffy, Zoro and Nami meet Gaimon, a man trapped in a treasure chest. - Gaimon has spent the past twenty years living alone, aside from the company of the island's animals, longing for a treasure he could never reach. - Luffy goes and opens the treasure chests for him, only to reveal that they're completely empty. - Despite his disappointment, Gaimon finds relief that he no longer has to protect the treasure, and he can focus on looking after the animals on the island. I could sit here for hours and ramble on about the clever metaphors Oda uses, and unbox the significance of everything that happens in that chapter (and I just might), but what's really important here is Luffy's reaction to the lack of treasure: Source: One Piece Chapter 22 (Shueisha) What this chapter really highlights is that Luffy's "true" dream is not dependent on the discovery of treasure. If anything, it's a bonus. Sure, he leaves that island trying to find One Piece, but at the end of the day, it's more about the thrill of adventure than material acquisition. The other important factor in determining what their dream could be is knowing what being Pirate King means to Luffy. Luckily, he tells us this in Sabaody, when he meets Rayleigh: Source: One Piece Chapter 506 (Shueisha) This idea of Pirates being free is something that Luffy has had instilled in him from the very beginning of the story, back in Romance Dawn: Source: One Piece Chapter 1: Romance Dawn Without fully re-telling the chapter here, basically this conversation takes place after Shanks refuses to let Luffy join his crew (again). Even though Shanks won't let him in, he's still got his heart set on adventure, and the idea of being free to travel from island to island, doing as he pleases, is one that's stuck with him up until the present day. This philosophy is one that he's consistently lived by throughout the story. Think about how many times his crewmates and his brothers have complained that he just goes ahead and does what he wants. Now, to connect this to Roger. From his brief cameo in the Oden flashback, to his appearance in the Strong World chapter (not sure if that chapter is canon so I will not include it) where he declares the same thing Luffy said in Chapter 506, it seems that both men have similar approaches to both life and adventure. Both men are the living embodiment of the spirit of freedom and adventure. And I think somewhere in there, we have their "ultimate" dream. I couldn't tell you exactly what they said, and I think Oda's deliberately making it so that we can never be certain of exactly what they said until the moment he reveals it, but if I had to take a stab at what they said, I would guess it's something along the lines of this: "I'll be the freest man in the world" Seems like a strange thing to say, right? That's probably why the people who have heard their dreams had the reactions they did. I'm probably completely off here, but it's something that's definitely worth thinking about. Anyway, what do you guys think? Let me know!

kingslayer

Great theory but oda did say there is reward waiting for them in final island. Of course it wont be money stashed that would make WG tizzy . Rogers and luffys dream is something along to free people across the sea . Thats why i thinm red line will be destroyed by EOS .

ckimbrew

I’m with Kingslayer on this one. When Roger met Rayleigh for the first time, what did he say to him? “Do you want to turn the world upside down with me?” Makes me thing that Luffy wants to become the freest person in the world, then share that freedom with the world. D’s are the natural enemies of the gods, so maybe this means taking down the celestial dragons and freeing the world.

seiryu

> Great theory but oda did say there is reward waiting for them in final island. Of course it wont be money stashed that would make WG tizzy . Yes, this is the only major aspect to add on (super early in the SBS Oda confirms that One Piece is an actual treasure in addition to the major twist). This is on the right track, but just like the thread I just read from MM about the social media editor saying theories are all wrong, the "twist" is something hopefully none of us figure out. There is still something that makes everyone laugh at Laugh Tale. There is still a twist that makes people shocked upon hearing Roger/Luffy ("I will be the freest man in the world" is not going to shock anyone). Luffy already lives as one of the freest people in the world. So did Roger. I'm probably going over the line a little more than I should, so I'm shutting up now.

kingslayer

Marco Polo

> Great theory but oda did say there is reward waiting for them in final island. Of course it wont be money stashed that would make WG tizzy . Rogers and luffys dream is something along to free people across the sea . Thats why i thinm red line will be destroyed by EOS . > I’m with Kingslayer on this one. When Roger met Rayleigh for the first time, what did he say to him? “Do you want to turn the world upside down with me?” Makes me thing that Luffy wants to become the freest person in the world, then share that freedom with the world. D’s are the natural enemies of the gods, so maybe this means taking down the celestial dragons and freeing the world. Ok I 100% agree with both of you - I think whatever One Piece is will allow Luffy to share his freedom with everyone else in the world. However, I very deliberately didn’t include it because i don’t think either Luffy or Roger set out with the goal of liberating the entire world - both of them are inherently selfish. We’ve seen what Luffy thinks of heroes and acts of heroism (cool, but not quite for him), so from my perspective any dream he has is for himself first, and if others benefit then good for them. The small bits of Roger we’ve seen imply that he’s similarly selfish. Maybe I should expand a bit and clarify this. Roger may have said “want to turn the world upside down with me?” to Rayleigh when they set off, but remember that he didn’t set sail with the intention of finding One Piece - he only decided to do that in his later years. In fact, he didn’t realise it existed until he’d completely sailed the Grand Line. > This is on the right track, but just like the thread I just read from MM about the social media editor saying theories are all wrong, the "twist" is something hopefully none of us figure out. There is still something that makes everyone laugh at Laugh Tale. I think this would be a separate theory (and I have a supremely dumb idea that I plan on sharing at some point) > There is still a twist that makes people shocked upon hearing Roger/Luffy ("I will be the freest man in the world" is not going to shock anyone). Luffy already lives as one of the freest people in the world. So did Roger. Ok this is another point I could have expanded on a little. The biggest flaw with this theory is that it doesn’t feel all that surprising to us as readers that they’d say this. However, if you put that line (or words that have the same effect) into the context of Luffy and Roger’s conversations in 585 and 966, then it does feel kind of weird to say. To illustrate this, I’ll use Luffy’s conversation with Ace/Sabo as an example. Ace has just said he wants the whole world to know his name, and then Luffy comes out and says something like: “I’m gonna do whatever I want” It seems weird, right?

Deathblokey

> I'm probably going over the line a little more than I should, so I'm shutting up now. I keep seeing comments like this, do you know what's going to happen but are afraid to say it because Oda's going to see it and change the ending? Because I don't understand that.

seiryu

> Interesting well it s true oda's team work overtime to check if someone is predicting the story and he changes the plot to make his readers surprised. About the part luffy/roger's ambition is much more than one piece it could be childish that could make readers "wtf". Truly endgame scenrio scenrio we wouldnt find out like untill laughtale journey begins. I don't research it directly, but based on his title, the social media editor (forget the exact title), but the guy referenced in the announcement thread you posted in seems like the only guy looking up things in terms of theories. Recently, Oda told us that he changed his request and stopped wanting to hear updates on if people were correct with their theories. I really hope it isn't a childish twist. Luffy suddenly becomes mature in terms of his morals while he is training on his own, so this implies he is driven by a serious dream. I definitely think the "WTF" aspect comes from this being a reaction to hearing it. I can only speak for myself, but I'd be completely disappointed if it's some petty gag that is the final twist for this series. Literally 25-30 years for some petty and poor quality joke would be depressing...> I think this would be a separate theory (and I have a supremely dumb idea that I plan on sharing at some point) The jokes are just as fun to discuss!> Ok this is another point I could have expanded on a little. The biggest flaw with this theory is that it doesn’t feel all that surprising to us as readers that they’d say this. However, if you put that line (or words that have the same effect) into the context of Luffy and Roger’s conversations in 585 and 966, then it does feel kind of weird to say. To illustrate this, I’ll use Luffy’s conversation with Ace/Sabo as an example. Ace has just said he wants the whole world to know his name, and then Luffy comes out and says something like: “I’m gonna do whatever I want” It seems weird, right? Wait, I want to clarify something. I'm reading all of this as just indicating the gist/direction of the real dream. None of us are directly coming up with the sentence because there is this "real ending" twist that Oda wants none of us to ever figure out. I think we're on the same page and that you have a funny idea on this "twist".> I keep seeing comments like this, do you know what's going to happen but are afraid to say it because Oda's going to see it and change the ending? Because I don't understand that. Oda has already admitted to making changes (WCI during the apologies but this extends to Wano Kuni too) because he didn't like that people figured out what was coming up. He directly stated that he would change the "real ending" of One Piece if he found out someone figured it out. Things have improved that he has made minor comments on being at peace and not wanting to hear if people figure out major twists. However, I never thought WCI B.S. would ever occur. I have some inside info from the unofficial databooks and I have a personal theory too but I will NEVER post it because Oda has this innate pettiness/pride/something that made him willing to tarnish his "child". People can downplay the effects that already change the rest of the series, but Oda contradicted things that now affect the entire New World. This is why I'm biased against promoting theories on this. Oda is probably going to stick to his original word that he will change the real ending of One Piece once someone gets the gist of it. This is going to be the exact same pattern as WCI B.S. Only thing is that it gets worse because now there is astronomically less freedom/wiggle room because all of the plot will be in place so contradictions will be all over the place.

ckimbrew

Saw Arthur from Library of Ohara’s video yesterday... and now I can’t stop thinking about his idea of what Roger and Luffy both said. Something that is childish but something that’s also shocking for someone that just conquered the grand line... I’m going to find the one piece, find the last island of raftel, and when I do......... I’m going to throw the BIGGEST PARTY/BANQUET in the WORLD!!! If you think about it, he has parties with Alabasta, Sky Island, Fishman Island, Dressrosa, etc... Hell, his party may be so freaking grand, even Big Mom would want to join.

kingslayer

seiryu Yes, it will be childish snd worthwhile because thats what likely Roger learnt there and he laughed at it. So whatever the childish dream it is will be complicated or impossible task. We can assume from luffy perspective its likely going to be about throwing party to everyone after he achieves as Pirate king . Luffy is heavily inspired from Shanks crew and their lively vibrant crew who party and adventure. Even those terms is more of far cry with WG because when luffy will learn joyboy's intention and his childhood drewm he will want to defeat world govt at all cost.

Marco Polo

> Wait, I want to clarify something. I'm reading all of this as just indicating the gist/direction of the real dream. None of us are directly coming up with the sentence because there is this "real ending" twist that Oda wants none of us to ever figure out. I think we're on the same page and that you have a funny idea on this "twist". Yeah exactly. I think Oda’s twist and Luffy’s dream are two separate things, though. The Laugh Tale chapter suggests there’s something about the One Piece that’s outside of our “normal” expectations... > I’m going to find the one piece, find the last island of raftel, and when I do......... I’m going to throw the BIGGEST PARTY/BANQUET in the WORLD!!! This is another idea I can completely get behind. You lay out a lot of good evidence for it, and our first interaction with Roger ends in a party as well. I could see the series ending with a big party as well, actually.

stormchaser

Really interesting! Luffy def wants more than the (possible) treasure. Being free is one big reason indeed. The part with Gaimon, Luffy focuses on the alone part. It makes me think reaching Raftel has something to do with friends & family to him. Not that I have any idea of what and how..

seiryu

> I’m going to find the one piece, find the last island of raftel, and when I do......... I’m going to throw the BIGGEST PARTY/BANQUET in the WORLD!!! I mean this is going to happen, and it probably is the biggest party since it has to include all of the allies. Definitely accurate since I fully expect it to happen and probably be included in the epilogue portion of the plot. > Yes, it will be childish snd worthwhile because thats what likely Roger learnt there and he laughed at it. So whatever the childish dream it is will be complicated or impossible task. We can assume from luffy perspective its likely going to be about throwing party to everyone after he achieves as Pirate king . Luffy is heavily inspired from Shanks crew and their lively vibrant crew who party and adventure. Even those terms is more of far cry with WG because when luffy will learn joyboy's intention and his childhood drewm he will want to defeat world govt at all cost. Ah, I'm biased to think we have two separate twists. I think the Laugh Tale twist is completely separate (but does at least overlap with the dream twist). Definitely agree that there are multiple layers to it in terms of the childish/shocking aspect and the implied impossibility of it. Yup, so we agree on the party aspect. I'm starting to think the Laugh Tale twist might not even be that "big" in terms of Void History insight. > Yeah exactly. I think Oda’s twist and Luffy’s dream are two separate things, though. The Laugh Tale chapter suggests there’s something about the One Piece that’s outside of our “normal” expectations... Perfect, thanks.> Luffy def wants more than the (possible) treasure. Just FYI: super early on in the SBS Oda confirms there is a monetary value of "treasure" in addition to the information, twist(s), etc.> The part with Gaimon, Luffy focuses on the alone part. It makes me think reaching Raftel has something to do with friends & family to him. Not that I have any idea of what and how.. Yup. It definitely seems like it has to be tied to something/traits Luffy had from when he was a kid. But hopefully it stays this way that none of us are actually accurate on what the twist is.

stormchaser

seiryu I do remember that, I meant it is secondary to Luffy. Most likely they would take something. Nami is onboard after all. :

seiryu

> I do remember that, I meant it is secondary to Luffy. Most likely they would take something. Nami is onboard after all. Oh most definitely. Since the Mugiwara members help the countries they go to, they are like Whitebeard and living much more frugal than the accomplishments they achieve. We see that Roger's crew was small (relative to other crews) and rich so they could afford to not touch anything.

Zagrash

Great analysis, love it! This is the best theory in the new forum so far in my opinion.

Marco Polo

> Great analysis, love it! This is the best theory in the new forum so far in my opinion. Wow, thank you!

Marco Polo

Something else I’ve just found that might be worth adding to this thread: It’s from one of the chapters towards the end of Dressrosa, but I can’t remember which.

Marco Polo

Here’s an interesting theory on this that I actually quite like https://youtu.be/VgfYZ99cfZ0 TL;DR - Luffy’s dream is to throw the biggest party in the world - this is connected together by all the banquet/party scenes from the series, both with the Straw Hats and with the Red Hair Pirates in Romance Dawn