The reason Kaido wants to die..

ckimbrew

Since Kaido has been introduced, he has been on a mission to kill himself. By suicide, by meeting someone strong enough to actually take his life, or by creating a war so large it consumes the entire world and maybe being presented an opportunity to die in battle. Throughout the story, I have thought of many reasons it could be. Maybe he's nuts. Maybe he's bored because there are no challenges for him in this era now that Whitebeard and Roger are both dead. Maybe he wants to be remembered throughout history as well... During the flashback, Kaido and Oden fought. And, in the end, Kaido won. However, before Kaido claimed "victory", it appeared that Oden was getting the better of him which was a surprise to Kaido himself. The enemy had a transformation technique that showed Oden what appeared to be Momonoske having his life threatened unless Oden surrendered. Oden surrendered and Kaido clocked him over the head. Knowing what we now know about Kaido's, and from how he speaks, he's an old pirate from an old generation that believed there was honor among pirates. And, while there are no rules in a fight among pirates, his honor was besmirched when taking the victory the way he did. Just one arc before, we saw Katakuri's response when his little Flampe dared to interfere in his fight with Luffy. Injuring Luffy just enough to allow Katakrui to strike what could have been a lethal blow. Immediately upon becoming aware of the interference, Katakuri decided to inflict the same wound upon himself to once again level the playing field and more importantly, to keep his own personal code of honor intact. Back to Kaido... In the end, he admired Oden. So much so, that he did him the favor of ending his life without further torment. But, once Oden was gone, Kaido's fate was sealed to live with his shameful victory forever. Oden missing plays a HUGE role in why he is perceived to be invincible... Kaido sincerely believes that there is no other Samurai in the world that will even be as powerful as Oden. This belief is so strong, that no one since has been able to cut him. No one has been able to penetrate his scales. Until now. Now that Oden's scabbards are standing in front him, constantly reminding him of Oden, his belief system was temporarily cracked. They have showed bravery, skill, intense passion and ryou all of which remind him so much of Oden that his shaky belief system was allowing their swords to penetrate his skin. They even strike the very same pose of the attack that once led to his near defeat. Finally, it is all over. Finally, through Oden's retainers, I am about to die. I am "happy" to die... BUT, after their combined attack failed to penetrate deeper than the old scar left by Oden, Kaido's will/belief that there'd never be another samurai as powerful as the monster Oden was back in full force. With that, Kaido is back to being invincible and impenetrable... Sorry for the rushed convo... short on time. Please let me know if you agree or disagree.

magicalmelancholy

Haki controlled by psychology? Huh, interesting theory to say the least.

Marco Polo

This is a really interesting theory, and it's something that did cross my mind when Kaido said what he said in 993. We also saw this attitude a little in his encounter with Luffy - he let Luffy land a lot of attacks, and then when they barely tickled, he just kind of went "how disappointing" and then ended the fight (this is apparently massively drawn out in the anime to the point where the "meaning" of that fight is somewhat lost). The question I have for you is this. Do you think he's just looking for an opponent as strong in mind and body as Oden, or was he specifically lowering his guard for the Scabbards? > Haki controlled by psychology? Huh, interesting theory to say the least. It's not so much that it's controlled by his psychology, it's that he willingly keeps his guard down to see if someone's capable of hurting him. And then when they inevitably cant, he gets disappointed and ends the fight. Or at least that's how it seems to me.

ckimbrew

I don't think he is willingly letting his guard down at all. If you think about his word choice, he is expressing shock and confusion. "Why are their attacks penetrating"... This question is directed at his belief that “Oden is the only man capable of killing/hurting me and he is dead”, because his belief is directly being challenged. The collective presence of Oden's Scabbards are reminding him so much of Oden his belief of never going to be able to die from someone not Oden is starting to waver. He actually starts to believe they may also have what it takes to end his life. Just like how Big Mom's shattered picture of Mother Caramel shattered her psychology and temporarily dropped her defenses. Her once impenetrable will was fractured allowing her knee to be scraped. She too has a belief or a will that is so intense, she believes that she will not die or be harmed until her dream is accomplished. I believe Oden had a similar mindset that allowed his skin to not be damaged by the death by boiling sentence. He understood that the only way to save his people was to survive, so he resolved himself or steeled his resolve to the point that he would not die until he surpassed the challenge put infant of him. Now, I believe Whitebeard had the same defenses. This is why everyone was shocked when he was able to be stabbed by Squard. Whitebeard was aware of his own mortality and began to openly question his position as the world's strongest man. Now, we did not get to see him go from impenetrable to penetrable, so I can only take this from the context of the story. Similarly, Roger was able to be penetrated because he reached his dream, realized he did not have enough time left to be the one Joy Boy was waiting for due to his illness, so he resigned his will to live on and was able to smile at death's door because he accepted it.

seiryu

So let’s simplify it and just use the only given name “iron ballon”. Since context implies this is separate from haki for now, this is probably for the better. I got my new t patient so I’ll probably clarify more later but I will fully agree on the mechanics being the same as Big Mom. I don’t see how the initial part can be true (from what I’m reading I fully agree with Magical. Side tangent: MagicalMelancholy any preference on Magical, Mel, Maggy, MM, or something else?) If this is the case, Luffy automatically gets the strongest offensive and defensive power ups since he’s the most “strong willed” character. It is a separate power and how they all got it is different (the second post). It is overlapping with haki where mental trauma is the only thing to negate it. I just gotta be blunt that this negates Oden’s ranking in the universe/downgrades Kaidou. Kaidou has his awakening against Oden. We see Roger and Whitebeard using mastered offensive haki. Kaidou should have already been cut by others. Oden is still weak compared to Yonkou/admiral level. I do think we have the stereotypical shounen power up for Oden. Just like Luffy using haoshoku, getting the neck braces off, or my theory of using level 2 haki in Gear Fourth when he defeats Doffy, strong emotions create the massive power up. His peak is the severe wound to Kaidou.

magicalmelancholy

> Side tangent: @MagicalMelancholy any preference on Magical, Mel, Maggy, MM, or something else?) Nah, I like seeing what different people come up with in terms of nicknames

ckimbrew

MagicalMelancholy Lol seiryu "iron balloon" exactly. Steeling their resolve. I know you said you were going to clarify later, but I did have a couple questions. "I don't see how the initial part can be true"? Well, to be pirate king, of course he has to get the strongest abilities, right? But, I believe it not to be automatic. He has has three incredibly traumatic events. Losing Ace, losing his nakama, and losing Sabo. Ace being the only one that remained gone. But, in those moments, he has not been able to steel his resolve yet. Not saying that he is not believing that it's pirate king or nothing, but there hasn't been something that we can clearly see for him to have gained this ability yet. Maybe he gets pushed to the limit and sees more nakama disappearing, thinks back to the feeling he had when he lost them all, and then in that moment, he declares that he will not lose anyone else. Why would this "negate Oden's ranking and downgrade Kaido"? Luffy defintiely has the strong emotion. I know the anime is different, but when Luffy and Kaido fight, you can see Kaido gathering his purple Ryou before his attack. Luffy has the same aura but it is red, uncontrolled, and then it dissipates. - So, maybe emotional control could also be a trigger. Learning how to harness your own rage without becoming tense or erratic. What's that saying? Calm Chaos or something like that?

seiryu

MagicalMelancholy: MM it is for me (I'm a fan of angry Eminem so I like the expansion of "MM" nicknames). > "I don't see how the initial part can be true"? I fully agree with MM in that the way your first post reads is that a person's mindset alone is the biggest variable in creating the iron balloon defense. Context implies that all people that have been implied to have it (Whitebeard could be more that his kenbunshoku was so excellent that he would have dodged rather than having iron balloon defense too => the scene of Whitebeard's kenbunshoku allowing him to dodge Ace while still sleeping) because they are just physical freaks of nature. Kaidou does have the "extra" aspect that his zoan fruit further increases his natural defense, and then this is further increased by his awakening. This fully explains the "invincible" nature. It is probably safe to assume that all three of Whitebeard, Kaidou, and Big Mom are roughly all about the same level of "physical freaks". Because they train (like Zoro essentially), they refine that top tier potential to it's fullest. This is what I think iron balloon is. It seems to be based on the whole idea of "abs of steel", which is true because the tensile strength astronomically increases defensive capabilities. Luffy is not a physical freak of nature to the same level. This is why Oda uses the visualization of oversized humans. It is going to be impossible for Luffy to get iron balloon because his physical/build based genetics is just completely different. He will have a different path to get to the same level of Yonkou/admiral levels of defense (side tangent: level 2 haki now makes the admiral external haki barrier 100% relevant and not some random contradiction. I will be completely disappointed if the offense and defense is the same technique though => the Roger and Whitebeard clash is the same technique as the admirals blocking the frozen mast shrapnel). So that's the best part of Oda's combat/fighting scenes in that he has SOOOOO much variety. Maybe Luffy comes up with his own unique versions for mastered offensive, defensive, and foresight haki. Luffy's kenbunshoku is already different by his "feeling" base, so I personally want to see this. Context implies offense and defensive busoushoku is extremely biased by blades, which does match physics anyway. > Why would this "negate Oden's ranking and downgrade Kaido"? Every single breadcrumb on Kaidou prior to Wano Kuni matches him being the "strongest being in the entire world". Every single scene of Kaidou fighting in his full dragon form contradicts this. Why is Kaidou the only one where increased mass/size decreases strength? Kaidou should be 1000's if not greater amounts of strength, defense, essentially all physical capabilities (except speed/mobility). Every scene of Kaidou in his full dragon form is B.S. because Yonkou level is astronomically higher than what is shown. Oda is starting to show the real potential of Yonkou/admiral level in the manga (I think this is the general section...so this shouldn't be a spoiler). It is gray area, and a big part of Oden being able to land a significant blow to Kaidou is his emotional power up (literally just typed out this Deus Ex Machina/stereotypical shounen power-up). So yes, there is a huge jump in peak combat capabilities, but this is not constant. It is tied to Momo being threatened. So similarly, Oden himself admits he is in a completely different world in terms of power when compared to Whitebeard. In addition to stopping wanting to fight with Whitebeard and accepting the role as exec, there is the page of Oden reflecting on all the different things in the world he had no idea about and the scale of naivety. Whitebeard is the visualization of "power". By Oden's own words, Whitebeard is in a completely different world of combat capabilities. Kaidou has his awakening already. So it is only the emotional power up that allows Oden to have a significant blow to Kaidou. Kaidou's iron balloon and combination with even just basic defensive busoushoku fully negates all of Oden's attacks without the emotional power up. Oden's average combat capabilities is only a strong Yonkou exec (vs. people like Red Hair or Blackbeard execs). > Luffy defintiely has the strong emotion. I know the anime is different, but when Luffy and Kaido fight, you can see Kaido gathering his purple Ryou before his attack. Luffy has the same aura but it is red, uncontrolled, and then it dissipates. - So, maybe emotional control could also be a trigger. Learning how to harness your own rage without becoming tense or erratic. What's that saying? Calm Chaos or something like that? So it sounds like we fully agree on emotional based power ups. Luffy has it often because he has to eventually bridge the gap. The most recent example is being successful with level 2 haki to break the death collars. However, Luffy does have to eventually master all of these. At a bare minimum, Luffy will have to at least be proficient with his awakening. There's some manga power ups confirmed, but that's spoilers. Essentially, this astronomical power gap is why Oda was struggling to find a rational way for Luffy to win from years ago already. We are only seeing the gap objectively now (Kaidou easily KO'ing Luffy in Gear Fourth despite trying to defend with busoushoku).

minty

Oda's pen is sharper than the scabbards' swords

Riker

Very good analysis. I agree completely. Kaido seems to be a honourable person so I think this makes sense.