Are the Scabbards Oda's Solution to his &quot;Kaido Problem?&quot;

Are the Scabbards Oda's Solution to his "Kaido Problem?"

Marco Polo

So I was reading through the Chapter 992 discussion and I saw this post: > >What worries me is that Luffy is going to find a half-done Kaido to defeat, although all this Kabuki and five acts thing gives a lot of room for discussion. We'll see, I guess. This post reminded me of an old interview Oda did a few years back (seiryu I can't remember which one but I know you're very familiar with it please link it if you can) where he said that he hadn't worked out a way for Luffy to beat Kaido 1v1 yet. Now, one of the big pieces of that puzzle is the introduction of Ryuo, or advanced Armament Haki that allows Luffy to penetrate Kaido's armour. From what we've seen already, it seems like a massive powerup (he was able to use it to free Yamato from his shackles, which in itself is comparable to the feats of a certain Silvers Rayleigh) but at the same time not enough to put him at Kaido's level just yet. The question is, what else does he need? The natural answer is "help from someone else". We never expected Luffy to fight alone, but we originally thought that it would be Law to fight alongside him. That still might happen, but the way the war has been written so far, Luffy and Law are so far removed from each other that he's almost an afterthought. Now, that's not to say that I don't think Law will be a factor - I still think it's more likely than not that he and maybe also Kidd will be involved in the final battle. But again, their odds of victory would still be slim at best. Or at least, that was how it felt during all the pre-Wano discussions that have been had over the years. Now, I've mentioned a particular group of characters in the title of this thread but not in my actual post yet. The Red Scabbards are a group that only really came to prominence at the start of this arc - yes, we knew as early as Zou that they were connected to Oden, but I don't think any of us would have predicted just how pivotal they'd become in this arc, especially with the Kaido fight. As their role in the story has grown, so has our awareness of their obvious strength. We knew Cat and Dog were pretty formidable thanks to their encounter with Jack, but the likes of Kin'emon and Raizo weren't really given much shine in combat, so they ended up feeling like a mixture of the "guide" character (think Conis in Skypeia) and comic relief. But thanks to the Oden flashback, they've been given shine as legitimately strong fighters - they were trained by a guy who could hold his own in a fight with Prime Whitebeard, after all. And them directly fighting Kaido is not a turn any of us expected, but once we got to Onigashima it became clear that they had every intention of going for him and not just being support characters. However, the odds are that their battle is going to end brutally and tragically to pave the way for Luffy - but not without giving us some very important hints about Kaido, and landing some blows that could end up being pivotal in the long run. We've seen through the Scabbards' co-ordination and skill that Ryuo is all but necessary to inflict any kind of pain on Kaido in his dragon form at the very least. And the damage they've inflicted so far has been very targeted towards the scar on Kaido's chest. As much as it's symbolic in terms of the Scabbards inheritng Oden's will and "reopening old wounds", it's also looking more and more like a weak spot that can be exploited. Now, I don't think Luffy's the type to knowingly exploit a weakness like that, especially given that he's got a massive scar of his own, but if he lands the right shot in the right place then it could well be decisive. And the fight isn't over yet - we could well see more "clues" about any potential weaknesses Kaido has, no matter how small or insignificant they may seem. As much as the Scabbards vs. Kaido feels like an emotional climax to Act 3 of Wano and the events of the Oden flashback, I think it's also a story event that Oda's using to give his readers clues about how Kaido can eventually be taken down, as well as something he's used to figure out his Kaido "problem". What do you guys think?

seiryu

I might end up having to copy paste stuff from the chapter discussion, but all the breadcrumbs are indicating the Scabbards and WAY below Oden. The major points are the size of the wound and their unwillingness to learn the main parts of ryuuou (they ignore Oden when he wants to teach them the main part and incorrectly focus on trying to figure out their own individual styles). Moreover, Oden is still way below Whitebeard. Oden says so himself. It is only one panel when he is reflecting on all of the unknown things he is learning about the world but he visualizes Whitebeard when referencing the dramatic power difference he did not know. There are a few less direct panels where he acknowledges Whitebeard as the true leader by strength (he accepts Whitebeard as the leader from the "head of the family" standpoint later when he is willing to accept the executive role). I'm still super skeptical on level 2 haki being the bridge...if this is the case (and some breadcrumbs are pointing towards this) Oda contradicts the explanation by Rayleigh that level 2 haki is still a "basic technique". Every Yonkou/admiral should know this. Plus, we see that Roger and Whitebeard have a truly "advanced technique" where there is a "level 3 haki" or mastered offensive haki where the haki is the majority of the attack (the clash between the two). Oda has shown he has plans for advancements to defensive busoushoku (Oda took this out in the anime fight of Luffy vs. Kaidou), so at least there is a likely plan on what "mastered defensive busoushoku" looks like. The biggest hurdle is that Kaidou by definition of his "strongest being in the world" title is that he should have mastered offensive haki and mastered defensive haki. Oda is already decreasing the defensive side for Kaidou in his human form and is astronomically decreasing it in his full dragon form. So if Oda wants to take the shortcut of level 2 haki being the bridge, he has to change the power levels of previous Yonkou/admirals vs. current Yonkou/admirals because the current will not know mastered offensive and defensive haki. However, the plot necessitates Kaidou to be the first Yonkou to be defeated, so Oda wrote himself into a hole necessitating extra help for Luffy. I'm still super biased to want the original plan since it fits the best and connects all the breadcrumbs without having to contradict anything. Oda's literary perfection prevents him from having the freedom to change the plan. He already foreshadowed the necessary power-ups necessary to take down a Yonkou/admiral. AHHHHH...I just realized that the admirals using a haki barrier is not all that B.S. anymore. If mastered offensive busoushoku is external to the blade/fist/body part used for the strike, mastered defensive busoushoku having a similar effect will fit. We just need the explanation and or visualization on how it works. Oda knows what the "final version/final power-up" is, but filling in the steps/gaps to get to that point is the hardest part. We are starting to bridge the gap with level 2 haki since this is already external to the body. Either way, the plot will fit best if there are many aspects of training/powering up for Luffy. He's still on the lower end of Yonkou executive power levels (Shanks and Blackbeard have people that are Yonkou/admiral level).

Marco Polo

> I might end up having to copy paste stuff from the chapter discussion, but all the breadcrumbs are indicating the Scabbards and WAY below Oden. The major points are the size of the wound and their unwillingness to learn the main parts of ryuuou (they ignore Oden when he wants to teach them the main part and incorrectly focus on trying to figure out their own individual styles). Moreover, Oden is still way below Whitebeard. Oden says so himself. It is only one panel when he is reflecting on all of the unknown things he is learning about the world but he visualizes Whitebeard when referencing the dramatic power difference he did not know. There are a few less direct panels where he acknowledges Whitebeard as the true leader by strength (he accepts Whitebeard as the leader from the "head of the family" standpoint later when he is willing to accept the executive role). So my interpretation of 992 is that the combined efforts of all nine Scabbards is probably roughly equal to that of one Oden. But ultimately their lack of individual strength compared to fighters like Kaido and Oden will be their downfall. To include Whitebeard and Roger, I'd imagine the strength hierarchy to be something like this: Flashback Roger > Flashback Whitebeard > Kaido > Oden >> Luffy > Scabbards Given that Cat/Dog could fight equally with Jack 1v1, the Scabbards probably aren't as far below Luffy as we think - but they're definitely significantly below Oden. > I'm still super skeptical on level 2 haki being the bridge...if this is the case (and some breadcrumbs are pointing towards this) Oda contradicts the explanation by Rayleigh that level 2 haki is still a "basic technique". Every Yonkou/admiral should know this. Plus, we see that Roger and Whitebeard have a truly "advanced technique" where there is a "level 3 haki" or mastered offensive haki where the haki is the majority of the attack (the clash between the two). I don't think Level 2 Haki is enough on its own, but I think it's the essential requirement to even hoping to hurt Kaido. Luffy probably has to do more than just improve his Armament Haki to win - he's going to need to improve all aspects of his fighting style.

seiryu

> Given that Cat/Dog could fight equally with Jack 1v1, the Scabbards probably aren't as far below Luffy as we think - but they're definitely significantly below Oden. To go on a huge and almost seemingly different tangent: although we do not have enough people and examples to create different tiers, I fully expect there to be multiple tiers of power levels for people from initial Gear Fourth Luffy through Shanks or Blackbeard's weakest executive. The Scabbards (fighting seriously) and even Luffy before getting level 2 haki, could still easily wipe the floor with 99% of the people in the world. However, we have an astronomical jump to Yonkou/admiral level and because there is still so much more plot to go through, we have to have opponents for everyone other than Luffy in the crew to continue their arc to arc power-ups. This overlaps with the chapter discussion I think, but crew members 5-10 have varying power levels and they have sooooooo much gap to close. Vegapunk will close the majority of this gap, but there still has to be climax 1v1 fights too. > I might end up having to copy paste stuff from the chapter discussion, but all the breadcrumbs are indicating the Scabbards and WAY below Oden. The major points are the size of the wound and their unwillingness to learn the main parts of ryuuou (they ignore Oden when he wants to teach them the main part and incorrectly focus on trying to figure out their own individual styles). Moreover, Oden is still way below Whitebeard. Oden says so himself. It is only one panel when he is reflecting on all of the unknown things he is learning about the world but he visualizes Whitebeard when referencing the dramatic power difference he did not know. There are a few less direct panels where he acknowledges Whitebeard as the true leader by strength (he accepts Whitebeard as the leader from the "head of the family" standpoint later when he is willing to accept the executive role). So my interpretation of 992 is that the combined efforts of all nine Scabbards is probably roughly equal to that of one Oden. But ultimately their lack of individual strength compared to fighters like Kaido and Oden will be their downfall. To include Whitebeard and Roger, I'd imagine the strength hierarchy to be something like this: Flashback Roger > Flashback Whitebeard > Kaido > Oden >> Luffy > Scabbards Given that Cat/Dog could fight equally with Jack 1v1, the Scabbards probably aren't as far below Luffy as we think - but they're definitely significantly below Oden. > I'm still super skeptical on level 2 haki being the bridge...if this is the case (and some breadcrumbs are pointing towards this) Oda contradicts the explanation by Rayleigh that level 2 haki is still a "basic technique". Every Yonkou/admiral should know this. Plus, we see that Roger and Whitebeard have a truly "advanced technique" where there is a "level 3 haki" or mastered offensive haki where the haki is the majority of the attack (the clash between the two). I don't think Level 2 Haki is enough on its own, but I think it's the essential requirement to even hoping to hurt Kaido. Luffy probably has to do more than just improve his Armament Haki to win - he's going to need to improve all aspects of his fighting style. Yup...the gap is still astronomical...we'll see which direction Oda chooses to go in. There aren't many options though.

minty

It looks like the Scabbards will be resting in peace soon.

seiryu

> It looks like the Scabbards will be resting in peace soon. Luffy will "save the day" in the sense that he becomes the play thing to distract Kaidou from the Scabbards.

mr.mxy

I think, at least few of those scabbard will die or lose limbs. I certainly also think that Kaido is bit too much of an opponent and having Luffy defeat him here will be equivalent to declaring Luffy at his level and that wont be too good for story. Best outcome is probably Kaido defeat with few scabbards sacrificing themselves to the cause and Luffy getting seriously wounded in process but still standing. I'm also looking forward to arrival of the KIzaru (if my memory serves me right, he did head to the Wano), probably Marco showdown is on cards with him. I also think this is the arc where Luffy and Law dynamics will be on final setting, whatever Law is to do for Luffy, will happen in this arc, after this Law really has no place in story. Kid, if left alive will be the next Kaido, and I think he will kill at least one of the two from those traitor supernovas :

seiryu

> I think, at least few of those scabbard will die or lose limbs. I certainly also think that Kaido is bit too much of an opponent and having Luffy defeat him here will be equivalent to declaring Luffy at his level and that wont be too good for story. Best outcome is probably Kaido defeat with few scabbards sacrificing themselves to the cause and Luffy getting seriously wounded in process but still standing. Yea...I'm torn because it fits rationally that sacrifices are necessary to not die on Onigashima but at the same time, it becomes a bit redundant to have it happen in the same manner. Hopefully it can be done completely differently from how Pedro saved everyone in WCI and that's probably the the biggest aspect for me. As for Kizaru, I'm remembering that he voiced interest in wanting to go, but Akainu told him not to because the volume of capable samurai made it dangerous. So as of right now, RA (Koala's research), CP0 (who already have direct ties through working with Orochi), and SWORD (Drake) are the potential external allies that are most likely to show up. Law has huge potential. He's the only person so far that has knowledge of at least parts of the history of the D. Clan and is acting based on this inside knowledge. He also has ties to a second potentially influential clan/family tie through his other last names. Oda has a plan, so when and where it comes up is something we have to wait for. I do 100% agree that I can see Law ending their "alliance" after this arc. Apoo definitely seems weak enough to be killed, but this might come sooner. Apoo is going to lose the antibody, so Queen gets added to the list of people that want to take Apoo out. But, Kid is going to be the next Kaidou? The person that wants to see the world destroyed?

mr.mxy

Kid for me has some sort of personality that will take him to the top if he does live, so given that Luffy to be king in this era, and kids overall character and personality I see him being a similar entity in future as Kaido. Strong, big and controlling large crew, Law is likely to be with small screw only, while it wont be exact copy I feel Kid is going to eventually face a loss from Luffy and he might not take it graciously and become next generation Kaido. But then again by then we will be done with OP.

seiryu

> Kid for me has some sort of personality that will take him to the top if he does live, so given that Luffy to be king in this era, and kids overall character and personality I see him being a similar entity in future as Kaido. Strong, big and controlling large crew, Law is likely to be with small screw only, while it wont be exact copy I feel Kid is going to eventually face a loss from Luffy and he might not take it graciously and become next generation Kaido. But then again by then we will be done with OP. Ah, yup I got ya. He isn't a D., but he's definitely got a similar "hard-headedness" to just keep pushing through for sure. I can definitely see Kid growing in relevance since this entire Wano Kuni arc has been his rude awakening. So to continue with the contrasts, Law will "run" to a certain extent while Kid will take it face on.

mr.mxy

seiryu

> Tbh, if it wasn't story for Luffy I would most certainly cheer for Kid being the pirate king, he fits the bill and more so like real pirate. haha Haha, yup I can agree on this. I remember people getting all bent out of shape when Kid's bounty was slightly higher than Luffy's.